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Next Wake Forest Basketball Coach...

RChildress107 said:
My optimistic scenario has a higher ceiling than that. And if Manning coached us to 3 straight 8 seeds and .500 ACC finishes he would, by definition, be a decent coach.
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So your end game is .500 ACC seasons with a “decent coach.” And you think that’s a high ceiling.
 
PhDeac said:
So your end game is .500 ACC seasons with a “decent coach.” And you think that’s a high ceiling.
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No. I literally just stated that I think the ceiling is higher than that. I do think the likely end game is to position the program to upgrade to a coach that can take us to the next level. Finding such a coach is difficult as is, I’d rather try it from a position of relative strength.
 
My position on Manning has always been that if he left tomorrow he will leave behind a much better program than the one he found (that statement has been true for at least the last two years) and that as soon as I start to have doubts about his ability to leave it in a better place than it is at that time, I’ll call for his firing, regardless of who the AD is.
 
RJKarl said:
If Hoard and Mucius are as good as advertised, it is illogical not to expect a big jump next year. Filling our two massive holes (Wilbekin and Thompson) with a 5*, 6'8 player and either Sarr or Mucius creates a big jump. I understand some are so invested in hating Manning that they can't see such obvious facts, but that's on them.
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"facts"
 
RJKarl said:
If Hoard and Mucius are as good as advertised, it is illogical not to expect a big jump next year. Filling our two massive holes (Wilbekin and Thompson) with a 5*, 6'8 player and either Sarr or Mucius creates a big jump. I understand some are so invested in hating Manning that they can't see such obvious facts, but that's on them.
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The things you're saying about Hoard and Mucius now you were saying about Chaundee this exact time last year. Not many freshmen are significant contributors right from the get-go. There's a chance we make the Dance next year, but it's no sure thing by any stretch.
 
If Hoard and Mucius have the same freshman impact that Brown just had, we will probably suck next year.
 
Ayo said:
The things you're saying about Hoard and Mucius now you were saying about Chaundee this exact time last year. Not many freshmen are significant contributors right from the get-go. There's a chance we make the Dance next year, but it's no sure thing by any stretch.
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I think the charitable reading of RJ’s argument is that if Hoard and Mucius perform on the high end of their expected ranges as freshman then it would take an epic failure on Manning’s part to not make the tournament. That’s an accurate statement, IMO, and relevant when taking about Manning’s ceiling, next year and beyond
 
I think people were overrating Brown. He was a top 40 recruit. Those guys aren't immediate stars. Rather, on average, they're really good players after a year or two. It's just that Wake had been so starved for talent at that point, people expected a miracle. Brown is going to be a very good player for Wake though and I think he makes a jump next year. You saw the flashes this year. He'll also have more talent around him and that will make it easier for everyone. Still, Brown started from Day 1.

Hoard is a step up from Brown. And that's not cutting on Brown.
 
Barring everything going right, there was little chance that this year's team was going to be successful which is also what I said. I did expect Chaundee to be better than he was. As I said many times, not using Chanudee more was a big complaint of mine this year.

But adding Chaundee and losing Arians, JC and Dinos is vastly different than replacing Thompson and Wilbekin with Hoard, Mucius and Sarr. One is a huge loss. The other is a big net gain. You have to be strictly negative not to admit this.

As I've often said, if we don't make The Dance year, Danny has to go.
 
Seems like people are discounting how hard it is to win on the ACC level. WF is keeping up, but with a couple of exceptions all 15 ACC schools max-out on resources devoted to basketball. On top of that certain schools, Duke, UNC, L'ville, even Cuse have built in advantages as the result of national attention, adulation, reputation that make it easier to recruit talent. "Good coaches" lose in the ACC. Steve Donahue is a "good" coach. He won at Cornell, where nobody wins; he lost massively at BC, and then just took Penn back to the NCAAs for the first time in 10 years. Donahue is a good coach. Just hard to win in the ACC.
 
Pilchard said:
Seems like people are discounting how hard it is to win on the ACC level. WF is keeping up, but with a couple of exceptions all 15 ACC schools max-out on resources devoted to basketball. On top of that certain schools, Duke, UNC, L'ville, even Cuse have built in advantages as the result of national attention, adulation, reputation that make it easier to recruit talent. "Good coaches" lose in the ACC. Steve Donahue is a "good" coach. He won at Cornell, where nobody wins; he lost massively at BC, and then just took Penn back to the NCAAs for the first time in 10 years. Donahue is a good coach. Just hard to win in the ACC.
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Agree, but I think it is easier to recruit at Wake than it is at BC. You have to have the players to compete in the ACC, and that has rarely been the case at BC.
 
we'll miss Chandeac next year as he makes his way through his rookie year in the NBA
 
DeacsATS said:
Agree, but I think it is easier to recruit at Wake than it is at BC. You have to have the players to compete in the ACC, and that has rarely been the case at BC.
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Totally agree; the point is that winning in the ACC is tough. There are many other comparisons. Jeff Jones can coach, but in the end, he couldn't win at ACC; he has since won at American and ODU. Essentially everyone hired by an ACC school proved that they have solid coaching chops to get the job; they have comparatively large pools to hire strong assistants, but not everyone can win; there a 15 schools going all-out to win, and a couple of schools are essentially locks to be top 5 every year; that doesn't leave a lot margin for error for other schools.
 
DeacsATS said:
Agree, but I think it is easier to recruit at Wake than it is at BC. You have to have the players to compete in the ACC, and that has rarely been the case at BC.
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If i'm not mistaken most of BC's b ball success happened relatively soon after entering the ACC. It was still operating off their Big East results. College bball is way down the pecking order for Boston sports fans. Now you are adding a lack of natural rivals and interest in whom they play as well as little local talent. This is not a formula for long-term success.

Barring getting a great coach, they will struggle more than any of the original ACC teams.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
we'll miss Chandeac next year as he makes his way through his rookie year in the NBA
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That is a risk that gets larger as the caliber of recruits gets better. But at the same time, recruiting more highly rated players is the most likely path to successful (winning games) basketball. In this day and age you have to live with early departures. As a coach, you just have to keep a good dialogue with your players so you know and can plan for early departures.

Unexpected early departures of starters can mess up a team.
Losing the 12th and 13th guys from the end of the bench don't hurt as much, particularly if players with more potential can be brought in.
 
Deaconblue said:
That is a risk that gets larger as the caliber of recruits gets better. But at the same time, recruiting more highly rated players is the most likely path to successful (winning games) basketball. In this day and age you have to live with early departures. As a coach, you just have to keep a good dialogue with your players so you know and can plan for early departures.

Unexpected early departures of starters can mess up a team.
Losing the 12th and 13th guys from the end of the bench don't hurt as much, particularly if players with more potential can be brought in.
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RJKarl said:
Barring everything going right, there was little chance that this year's team was going to be successful which is also what I said.
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Your worst case was 16. Best case was 23. Those numbers already accounted for all of your caveats, hedges, ifs/ands/buts. Stop trying to pretend like you knew this season was going to be a failure.
 
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i'm actually surprised we finished inside the kenpom top 100
 
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