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Hire Ryan Odom

I like new hires when your current coach has demonstrated he can't get the job done.
 
WFU Lurker said:
We do fundamentally disagree. From my perspective, i will take the proven 50 year old and the high probability of 15 years of success versus the unproven 35 year old and the low probability of 30 years of success. No amount of arguing is going to change that.

Wake isn't one of the worst P5 jobs though. We are pretty clearly better a job than BC, Miami, VT, and Clemson. That's just within our own conference.
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All the great businesses are built by people in their 30s and 40s. After that, they are just reaping the benefit of what they set up. Same is true with college basketball. Coach K and Roy would have no chance to recreate what they did at their ages now. They just have it on autoset now. It's a young man's game for a reason. It takes nearly every waking minute of focus and effort in recruiting and coaching. Old people just have a lot less probability of successfully pulling that off because they are well...old. Manning was a bad hire because he was already without fire (do to his NBA earnings) and not smart.

But you are correct we disagree. If Wake keeps doing it your way the results in my opinion will continue to be predictable.
 
deacsrus said:
I like new hires on pure emotion. They always work out.
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If Jairus Lyles doesn't hit a game-winning 3 with 0.5 seconds left against Vermont, this thread does not exist.
 
Ryan is 43 years old and will be a hot name no doubt. It is always smart to spot talent that has strong connections to Wake Forest.
 
Ayo said:
If Jairus Lyles doesn't hit a game-winning 3 with 0.5 seconds left against Vermont, this thread does not exist.
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The concept of hiring a young coach with Wake ties and hustle has very much existed for years. And we haven't done it. We've gone with old and dumb. And that's why we have threads about other teams in the NCAA tournament every March.
 
Based on past history, it seems there is zero chance that Wellman would hire somebody from the Odom or Miller family. There are folks on this board that have actual insight, but from afar, it seems like it would never happen.
 
donaldross said:
All the great businesses are built by people in their 30s and 40s. After that, they are just reaping the benefit of what they set up. Same is true with college basketball. Coach K and Roy would have no chance to recreate what they did at their ages now. They just have it on autoset now. It's a young man's game for a reason. It takes nearly every waking minute of focus and effort in recruiting and coaching. Old people just have a lot less probability of successfully pulling that off because they are well...old. Manning was a bad hire because he was already without fire (do to his NBA earnings) and not smart.

But you are correct we disagree. If Wake keeps doing it your way the results in my opinion will continue to be predictable.
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Let's be clear, Wake has not been doing it "my way", not with [Redacted] or Manning anyway. Prosser was aligned with my way. Clawson was aligned with my way. Grobe was aligned with my way. [Redacted] and Manning weren't. I made a massive post about it that no one read, but basically all I look for is multiple years of success at a lower level and some proof points that make me believe that will translate and be sustained at Wake Forest (high major recruiting experience, success through multiple classes, regional ties, mid-major success). Neither Manning nor [Redacted] hit on either of those elements. Mike White did at age 37. Archie Miller did at age 35. All else equal, I would prefer a younger guy. All else equal, I would prefer a guy with Wake Forest ties. But, I am not going to set those as the only criteria.
 
WFU Lurker said:
Mike White did at age 37. Archie Miller did at age 35. All else equal, I would prefer a younger guy. All else equal, I would prefer a guy with Wake Forest ties. But, I am not going to set those as the only criteria.
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Not my only criteria. But your examples are the classic reason your logic is so messed up. Those 2 dudes are now the head coaches at Florida and Indiana respectfully. We had 0 chance of getting them over those schools. You want to wait until someone is a name coach with the resume and then hire them. It will be far too late--just like it was with those 2.

We need to hire someone before they get there and because we have inside information that others do not have as to how much hustle and smartness they have--which is why Miller and Kelsey are such good choices.
 
I wish it would happen. What he’s done at UMBC in two years is more impressive than anything Manning has done, but we are stuck with Manning I’m afraid.
 
donaldross said:
Not my only criteria. But your examples are the classic reason your logic is so messed up. Those 2 dudes are now the head coaches at Florida and Indiana respectfully. We had 0 chance of getting them over those schools. You want to wait until someone is a name coach with the resume and then hire them. It will be far too late--just like it was with those 2.

We need to hire someone before they get there and because we have inside information that others do not have as to how much hustle and smartness they have--which is why Miller and Kelsey are such good choices.
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We didn't have to get them over those 2. We had to get them over Louisiana Tech and Dayton. That Wellman failed at that doesn't mean that it was impossible.
 
FWIW, Wellman thought he had inside information on [Redacted]. So, that plan probably isn't foolproof.
 
this waiting to see how they do mentality is why wake will never be great if that's the theme in the athletic department.
it's like buying AMZN at 1600 because it has increased 10000% since the IPO. greatness doesn't come from taking the "safe" route. look no further than the eagles. they were mocked for their hire and won super bowl. meanwhile, other nfl teams re-hire people they fired (romeo crennel)
 
WFU Lurker said:
We do fundamentally disagree. From my perspective, i will take the proven 50 year old and the high probability of 15 years of success versus the unproven 35 year old and the low probability of 30 years of success. No amount of arguing is going to change that.

Wake isn't one of the worst P5 jobs though. We are pretty clearly better a job than BC, Miami, VT, and Clemson. That's just within our own conference.
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Who is the 50 year old with 15 years of success you have in mind? Could we get him over other programs? Could we afford to pay him the big bucks he will command?

The game has changed. We can’t assume a top mid-major coach will want to come to Wake. We definitely can’t assume he would choose Wake.

We need to get a guy before he gets that mid-major job and has success.
 
WFU Lurker said:
FWIW, Wellman thought he had inside information on [name redacted]. So, that plan probably isn't foolproof.
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Agree strongly with PH. And Wellman has no information. Have you ever watched that guy walk to his seat at the Joel? He heads there as quickly as possible with his head down hoping no one speaks to him. He has been doing that for 20 years--which is exactly how he lives life--he thinks he knows it all and looks straight down with blinkers.

Even higher ups at Wake can hardly get a meeting with the guy. He is like a PG dribbling the ball up the floor without ever looking up. The results in life are predictable.
 
donaldross said:
Agree strongly with PH. And Wellman has no information. Have you ever watched that guy walk to his seat at the Joel? He heads there as quickly as possible with his head down hoping no one speaks to him. He has been doing that for 20 years--which is exactly how he lives life--he thinks he knows it all and looks straight down with blinkers.

Even higher ups at Wake can hardly get a meeting with the guy. He is like a PG dribbling the ball up the floor without ever looking up. The results in life are predictable.
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I don't always agree with DR, but he is spot-on in this comment.
 
PhDeac said:
Who is the 50 year old with 15 years of success you have in mind? Could we get him over other programs? Could we afford to pay him the big bucks he will command?

The game has changed. We can’t assume a top mid-major coach will want to come to Wake. We definitely can’t assume he would choose Wake.

We need to get a guy before he gets that mid-major job and has success.
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Maybe I wasn't clear, but that isn't what I said. I want to hire the guy who is most likely to be successful here, even if he is 50 and therefore will only be at Wake for ~15 years. To your point, it's fairly rare someone is that age, has a strong resume, and is also within Wake's grasp. Tom Crean (51) would have been. I believe Eric Musselman (53) would be. But most of the guys I like are between 35 and 45 though. Dan Hurley for example. In fact, that's pretty much where I stopped feeling good about my list which is the whole reason I'd rather push pause on this in hoping that someone emerges next season (potentially from the three names with Wake ties).

I am not sure why people think we should be shopping right next to ECU, UMass, and UNCC. We hired our last coach from a program better than all three of those.
 
Coaches like Crean and Hurley will never work for a control freak like Wellman.
 
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