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Hire Ryan Odom

WFU Lurker said:
Let's see who Pitt hires. That should be our floor. Everything about that program is an absolute disaster right now.
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I agree with this. But for Wellman, the ceiling is the floor.

BillBrasky said:
Honestly, not all the way. I still think his ceiling was last year, but I hope I'm wrong. I like his fight.



Tennessee. He was brought in to save Fulmer's job as a whiz kid OC
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Hard to call one bad year as an OC a failure for a head coach.
 
This Mike White at Florida situation is exactly what I’m talking about. White, of course, played at Ole Miss. Let’s say Ole miss had the vision to fire Andy Kennedy 3 years ago and then offered the job and a $750k 5 year contract to White. Does he take it? Of course he would have. And if he had won there now Ole Miss really has something.

Instead, Ole Miss is stuck with lame old Kermit Davis. White will never be at Ole Miss. They missed their window.
 
donaldross said:
This Mike White at Florida situation is exactly what I’m talking about. White, of course, played at Ole Miss. Let’s say Ole miss had the vision to fire Andy Kennedy 3 years ago and then offered the job and a $750k 5 year contract to White. Does he take it? Of course he would have. And if he had won there now Ole Miss really has something.

Instead, Ole Miss is stuck with lame old Kermit Davis. White will never be at Ole Miss. They missed their window.
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This is not wrong.
 
donaldross said:
Yea, right now, just like Wake right now. But you're missing the point, if Pitt beats us to Miller or Odom, if that guy truly is the winner we anticipate our window is gone.

But while we are comparing the two jobs let's look at the last 15 years:

Pitt: 5 Sweet 16s, 13 NCAA field of 64 appearances, 2 Big East Tournament Championships
Wake: 1 Sweet 16, 5 NCAA field of 64 appearances, 0 ACC Championships

More importantly all you need to know about Pitt is that when things went bad they are now doing everything to fix it. We "can't" because we'd be known as a school that fires people too soon--since such a consequence on the next hire was last heard in the 70s or so I'm told.

But Pitt is the floor? And we are in such a better place with a better job?
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Whenever we let Manning go, we will be in a better position to hire a coach than Pittsburgh is in right now. Jamie Dixon was really successful at Pittsburgh (that's all your 15 years shows), but they pushed him out. Then they fired his replacement after only two years and are dubiously trying to get out of his buyout. On top of it all, they have 0 2018 commits and 9 current players have requested their release. It does not get worse than that.

If that guy is truly a winner though. We have no idea. I mean, probably one of them will be successful at the high-major level, but I don't really know which one, and I highly doubt all three will be. Odom feels like he has the highest upside, and Kelsey feels the safest, but it's a bit of a shot in the dark given the question marks around each of them. Odom hasn't shown he can have success with his own players. Miller has had two good seasons in seven. Kelsey has not pushed Winthrop to nearly the same levels as Gregg Marshall. They all have massive quesiton marks. Frankly, if Pittsburgh is seriously considering any of them, it's validation of what a terrible job it is right now. Again, the only buzz for these guys has been from UMass, ECU, and UNCC. Not good jobs.

I don't advocate patience because of the optics. We have been plenty patient from that perspective. I advocate patience because there isn't a great fit out there right now.
 
donaldross said:
This Mike White at Florida situation is exactly what I’m talking about. White, of course, played at Ole Miss. Let’s say Ole miss had the vision to fire Andy Kennedy 3 years ago and then offered the job and a $750k 5 year contract to White. Does he take it? Of course he would have. And if he had won there now Ole Miss really has something.

Instead, Ole Miss is stuck with lame old Kermit Davis. White will never be at Ole Miss. They missed their window.
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Wrong. Very wrong.
 
donaldross said:
This Mike White at Florida situation is exactly what I’m talking about. White, of course, played at Ole Miss. Let’s say Ole miss had the vision to fire Andy Kennedy 3 years ago and then offered the job and a $750k 5 year contract to White. Does he take it? Of course he would have. And if he had won there now Ole Miss really has something.

Instead, Ole Miss is stuck with lame old Kermit Davis. White will never be at Ole Miss. They missed their window.
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The chief problem with that argument is that Mike White was a much better candidate for any job 3 years ago than W Miller, R Odom, and Kelsey are right now. There's a reason he got hired by Florida during that off season while no big job has given those guys second thought. White took a program from 246th in the country to 192nd, 85th, 37th, and 76th. He won 83 games in his last 3 seasons. If any of those three guys did anything that impressive, I would be all over him.

Side note - he made $600k at Louisana Tech so it would have taken more than $750k to get it done, but that's not important.
 
Ok I meant 4 years ago for Ole Miss to hire White, sorry meant 4 years.

And Wes Miller won the conference coach of the year in of the seasons you say was a “bad year”.
 
donaldross said:
Ok I meant 4 years ago for Ole Miss to hire White, sorry meant 4 years.

And Wes Miller won the conference coach of the year in of the seasons you say was a “bad year”.
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Good for him. UNCG was not good at basketball that year.

White was also a vastly better candidate after three years. The best team those three guys have had is Wes's team this year, at 82nd. Total of 14 full basketball seasons between them, and they collectively can't get within 40 spots of White's third year.
 
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WFU Lurker said:
Good for him. UNCG was not good at basketball that year.

White was also a vastly better candidate after three years. The best team those three guys have had is Wes's team this year, at 82nd. Total of 14 full basketball seasons between them, and they collectively can't get within 40 spots of White's third year.
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White isn’t a candidate to come to Wake. We never had a chance after he went to La Tech. Surely you aren’t saying you had the insight to hire him as an Ole Miss assistant?

You continue to attack Miller. I’m curious as to how many UNCG games you actually watched? I was promoting Miller the whole time. He has overachieved with the players he inherited nearly every season. He was Coach of the Year and your position was UNCG sucked. Yea, they had crappy players as a lowly So Con school generally does. Miller won his division with these players. The media covering the So Con after actually watching the games (unlike you) awarded him the Confernce Coach of the Year award. And here you are attacking him for it. JOKE.
 
donaldross said:
White isn’t a candidate to come to Wake. We never had a chance after he went to La Tech. Surely you aren’t saying you had the insight to hire him as an Ole Miss assistant?

You continue to attack Miller. I’m curious as to how many UNCG games you actually watched? I was promoting Miller the whole time. He has overachieved with the players he inherited nearly every season. He was Coach of the Year and your position was UNCG sucked. Yea, they had crappy players as a lowly So Con school generally does. Miller won his division with these players. The media covering the So Con after actually watching the games (unlike you) awarded him the Confernce Coach of the Year award. And here you are attacking him for it. JOKE.
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I am not attacking him. I am saying he isn't ready. Wake Forest should not hire a coach from a low major program unless he has had Gregg Marshall type results. Wes has done a great job at that program, but that doesn't mean he can do a great job at Wake Forest. That year he took over, UNCG certainly had a great narrative, but, in the end, the conference was really, really bad. Wes beat one top 200 teams (College of Charleston x2). Narrative aside, I am not going to get excited over a team that finished at 280th in the country. To be fair, I haven't watched them much, not that season, this season or really any other season. Maybe I am missing something, but when I always worry if low major success will translate (see Paul Hewitt - great run at Siena, had one winning ACC record in 11 tries). For Miller, my big concern is recruiting. He has never been in a situation where he had to recruit at the ACC level.

You are the one who brought White back up. That said, I refuse to believe that a competent AD couldn't have sold Mike White on the Wake Forest program. Ruston Louisiana is not some basketball mecca. Wellman was practically in tears during the [Redacted] press conference. No way was he effectively selling the program while he was mourning a guy who went 0.400.
 
Steve Donahue is another example. Had a great three year stretch at Cornell. Fell on his face at BC. Now he's back in the Ivy and won the conference in his third season at Penn.
 
Lurker, who is your list?
 
PhDeac said:
Lurker, who is your list?
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Ph's question hits the nail on the head. I have provided actual solutions through the years for Wake basketball. My solutions of Kelsey and Miller from 10 years ago have now panned completely out. My solutions come from watching live 4-5 actual games a week. People like Lurker just watch stuff on paper and read the box score and then criticize without providing actual solutions.

To summarize Lurker's position: He wants to stay with Manning. Then hire someone with Gregg Marshall's mid major proven type success next year. In other words...Gregg Marshall. Who ain't coming.

Saturday, Feb 10 this year was a classic example. Wake was away at Syracuse--no one went as our season was gone. Kelsey and Miller both had games in the triad. No one from Wake went. How is that even possible. How can we possibly be paying people to run our basketball program who do not even bother to attend Kelsey and Miller's game when they are playing IN THE TRIAD?? Wouldn't they at least want to watch with their own eyes?

We need solutions and results. Not people like Lurker who go to 6-7 games a year at the Joel and then have a crappy unrealistic opinion and judgment of others they do not actually watch. We already have such a fool: his name is Ron Wellman
 
donaldross said:
Ph's question hits the nail on the head. I have provided actual solutions through the years for Wake basketball. My solutions of Kelsey and Miller from 10 years ago have now panned completely out. My solutions come from watching live 4-5 actual games a week. People like Lurker just watch stuff on paper and read the box score and then criticize without providing actual solutions.

To summarize Lurker's position: He wants to stay with Manning. Then hire someone with Gregg Marshall's mid major proven type success next year. In other words...Gregg Marshall. Who ain't coming.

Saturday, Feb 10 this year was a classic example. Wake was away at Syracuse--no one went as our season was gone. Kelsey and Miller both had games in the triad. No one from Wake went. How is that even possible. How can we possibly be paying people to run our basketball program who do not even bother to attend Kelsey and Miller's game when they are playing IN THE TRIAD?? Wouldn't they at least want to watch with their own eyes?

We need solutions and results. Not people like Lurker who go to 6-7 games a year at the Joel and then have a crappy unrealistic opinion and judgment of others they do not actually watch. We already have such a fool: his name is Ron Wellman
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its ok DR...manning has the uncanny ability of finding sleepers no one else wants...cant you tell from his last 4 years? this is the path to success im sure of it
 
I tend to agree with D Ross.

I want a coach who knows how to win games and puts a product on the floor that does not look like bad AAU basketball.

I don't care how high a major they are at. The UNCG team was grossly undermanned against Gonzaga. Impossible for them not to be as they are recruiting from unequal pools.

Even so UNCG played a very organized tough defense. Their offense also looked good but their shooters were not all that accurate.

I want to see my team play good basketball. Players will come to a well coached team. The last 8 years have seen garbage basketball.

I don't want to see talented players throw up all over the floor because their coach is in a league above his ability.

Give me either Odom or Miller. If not, Kelsey.

Enough with tired NBA guys filling out their time.
 
knowell said:
I tend to agree with D Ross.

I want a coach who knows how to win games and puts a product on the floor that does not look like bad AAU basketball.

I don't care how high a major they are at. The UNCG team was grossly undermanned against Gonzaga. Impossible for them not to be as they are recruiting from unequal pools.

Even so UNCG played a very organized tough defense. Their offense also looked good but their shooters were not all that accurate.

I want to see my team play good basketball. Players will come to a well coached team. The last 8 years have seen garbage basketball.

I don't want to see talented players throw up all over the floor because their coach is in a league above his ability.

Give me either Odom or Miller. If not, Kelsey.

Enough with tired NBA guys filling out their time.
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are you blind? we are a top 90 progam in the country. manning just needs more time. he was screwed when he lost players to the pros so this year was mute...

for the record, id been a big manning believer prior to this year..i had hope he could grow and learn something. but after watching the same mistakes vs georiga southern as we did against cuse, and every game inbetween, its clear he cant do his job

but its ok, we have an under the rador frenchy coming in that is going to prove everyone wrong and bring us back. just wait. no one in the country is ready.

end sarcasm...

this program is in shambles, and only people with excuses will defend it. hoard will not make up for mannings stupidty and stubborness next year, too bad we are going to have to witness a whole nother season of it before a change is made. bet pitt hires odom and is in a better spot than wake 2 years from now..
 
donaldross said:
This Mike White at Florida situation is exactly what I’m talking about. White, of course, played at Ole Miss. Let’s say Ole miss had the vision to fire Andy Kennedy 3 years ago and then offered the job and a $750k 5 year contract to White. Does he take it? Of course he would have. And if he had won there now Ole Miss really has something.

Instead, Ole Miss is stuck with lame old Kermit Davis. White will never be at Ole Miss. They missed their window.
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No coach with any sort of future would have taken $750K/year to coach in the SEC three years ago. It's also silly to assume he would have had the resources at Ole Miss to succeed.
 
RJKarl said:
No coach with any sort of future would have taken $750K/year to coach in the SEC three years ago. It's also silly to assume he would have had the resources at Ole Miss to succeed.
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1) Ole Miss just built a 120 million perfectly sized new arena.

2) You are right it is much harder to build there than Florida at this time.

3) There was a window there where only Ole Miss would know about White—their four year PG and multi year Assistant at La Tech. During this window, White absolutely would have taken a P5 job (especially at his alma mater) at a reasonable price. Once that window closed and White was a known commodity, Ole Miss was forever out of luck.
 
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