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Hire Ryan Odom

Yep. Dave has said that wanted to coach a team with the "state's name" on the sweat shirt.

He got that shot when he took the South Carolina job to finish up his coaching career.

No sour grapes at all.
 
Pilchard said:
There's a randomness to coaching and outcomes that no one likes to admit. On the one side, you have Chris Mack who is universally acknowledged as a great coach; on the other, you have Leonard Hamilton who is often a punching bag for his lack of game coaching skills. Yet, FSU pulls the game out in the final seconds.

The scenario with uber coaches (Greg Marshall, Shaka, Izzo, Larranaga, Barnes, Cronin, Buzz... Wes Miller) failing in tight games, has been a theme in this tournament. Game coaching helps, but its not necessarily determinative.
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Except this wasn't random. Down one, they fouled with 8 seconds on the shot clock. Then they got the ball down 3 with over 20 seconds left, were looking at the sideline for instruction, pissed away a bunch of seconds, then got a three point attempt from Kanter that airballed to essentially end the game. It was inexcusable.
 
In the years since Dave Odom left South Carolina, he and Wake seem to have smoothed over whatever hard feelings there were at the time he left. As noted above, he has been welcomed back to campus. He should become part of the Wake Hall of Fame soon.
 
PhDeac said:
For sake of the argument, I’d count OT as a tie and also count the final result.

But regardless, it kinda makes the original point that the greatest coach of all time is 65% in one possession games.
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Fuck this. K is the worst...fuck K and Duke, forever.
 
Fwiw, Leonard Hamilton is a preposterous 24-3 in one-possession/OT games over the last seven ACC seasons.
 
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At one point wasn't Skip something like 55-1 when leading with five minutes to go?
 
Without looking it up, and with absolutely no stats to back this up, I'd wager that Bz was probably OK in one-possession games in his 4 years at Wake Forest.

Mostly because we lost every game by double-digits.

He was probably like 1-1 in one possession games in 4 years.
 
Looked it up... Bz was 11-6 in 4 seasons in games decided by 3 points or less (or OT).

I'll take that as additional proof that it is pretty much a meaningless stat.

FWIW, Here's how Manning looks:
2014-15: 4-5
2015-16: 4-4
2016-17: 1-1
2017-18: 0-2
TOTAL: 9-12
 
What’s meaningful there is that Manning only had one more close game a season than Bz.
 
PhDeac said:
What’s meaningful there is that Manning only had one more close game a season than Bz.
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Nah, if you look at it closely, you see that Bz was pulling out 3 point victories against the likes of Yale & Mercer.

Of course, Manning's 2 close losses this year were Georgia Southern & Drake.
 
I don't think the stat means much of anything because you are choosing an arbitrary number (3 points or less) to constitute a "close game"... And it is a pretty small sample size.

I mean Bz was 2-0 his first season under this scenario... But 8-24 overall. So that could have easily been 6-26 if we didn't pull out those tight wins against Iowa (JT Terrell prayer at buzzer) or UNC-Greensboro. 1-15 in ACC play wouldn't have been impacted.
 
DeacsATS said:
Looked it up... Bz was 11-6 in 4 seasons in games decided by 3 points or less (or OT).

I'll take that as additional proof that it is pretty much a meaningless stat.

FWIW, Here's how Manning looks:
2014-15: 4-5
2015-16: 4-4
2016-17: 1-1
2017-18: 0-2
TOTAL: 9-12
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I don't know...as terrible as Bz was at running a program (e.g. recruiting talent, motivating players, developing talent and being a respected leader), I think he's a decent tactician, which is why he lands on a lot of coaching benches. Manning is pretty weak, tactically. So these stats seem to back this up...
 
DeacsATS said:
Looked it up... Bz was 11-6 in 4 seasons in games decided by 3 points or less (or OT).

I'll take that as additional proof that it is pretty much a meaningless stat.

FWIW, Here's how Manning looks:
2014-15: 4-5
2015-16: 4-4
2016-17: 1-1
2017-18: 0-2
TOTAL: 9-12
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BINGO!! This is a virtually meaningless stat. In close games, talent is much more important. You have a much greater margin of error.
 
RJKarl said:
BINGO!! This is a virtually meaningless stat. In close games, talent is much more important. You have a much greater margin of error.
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Isn't talent important in all games ? It gives you a much greater margin of error.
 
Demonwolverine said:
Yeah. I would imagine even the best college coaches still hover somewhere around %55 or %60 wins in one possession games. There is only so much you can do/prepare for when you are guaranteed to have %100 turnover every 4 years.
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RJKarl said:
That's a preposterous statement.
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RJKarl said:
BINGO!! This is a virtually meaningless stat. In close games, talent is much more important. You have a much greater margin of error.
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Well now I'm a little confused. It seems we agree.

Or are you saying that good coaches get good talent and good talent wins close games more often than bad talent? My initial point was that I bet coaching has less to do with it, thus only being %10 better than a coin flip. I'm %90 team talent, %10 team coach when it comes to end game scenarios in bball.
 
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Deaconblue said:
22-12 = 64.7%. Not much above 60 even for one of the best all time.
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Over that same period, he has an overall winning percentage of .799. It looks like he is under performing his overall numbers by about 20% in close games.

Ironically, Danny's percentage is the same in close games as it is in all games. In fact, until this year, Danny's winning percentage in close games was much higher than his overall winning percentage.
 
I'll say it again... I don't think you can draw any conclusions from just looking at the records I posted.

I think you'd need to go back and look at each close game (take whatever definition that is... I'd argue you probably don't look at the final score, but instead take a step back and say something like a 2 possession (5 points?) game w/ 3-4 minutes remaining) and see if a team falls flat on its face more often than not.

We had a few close, winnable games this year that we ended up losing by more than 3 points.

I still think it is more of a player issue than a Manning coaching issue... We have zero players that can get their own shot in iso when we need a bucket. Crawford could be that guy, maybe, if he didn't prefer to jack up a 25 footer instead of getting into the lane. We also missed a TON of wide open shots down the stretch in a lot of games.

I haven't seen anything special in this NCAA tourney in terms of late game strategy... I've just seen players hit shots (or miss shots). Yes, coaching certainly plays into that, but at some point you have to hit big shots.
 
BiffTannen said:
All games are close at the beginning.
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Yeah, of course they are. But I think the topic is/was "Why do we fucking blow at the end of games?"

An abnormal amount of games lost were led by Wake Forest in the 2nd half.

I think Manning does a good job in "gameplanning", but when things get tight down the stretch, we have a nice combination of:
1- Not getting stops (defense sucks all game, but is magnified in the end game)
2- Missing shots / Turning the ball over
3- Manning just standing around and leaving it up to the players
 
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