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The demise of Wake Forest Basketball

Chill22 said:
Anyone want to work a little math on 8 years of the Wellman Plan?

Since Dino was ousted,

1. How many guys have played basketball on scholarship at Wake?
2. How many guys stayed 4 years?
3. How many guys earned a degree (undergrad or grad) from Wake Forest regardless of when they arrived on campus?
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The record for Manning. Since his arrival twenty three scholarship student athletes have been on the basketball roster and entered WFU as freshmen.

Three (Codi Miller-McIntyre, Devin Thomas, Mitchell Wilbekin) have completed four years of eligibility.

Nine (Miles Overton, Madison Jones, Greg McClinton, Aaron Rountree, Andre Washington, Rondale Watson, Daniel Green, Donovan Mitchell, Richard Washington) have transferred prior to completing their eligibility.

Two (Cornelious Hudson, Sam Japhet-Mathias) were dismissed from the team.

Two (John Collins, Dinos Mitoglou) left early to pursue professional contracts.

Six (Bryant Crawford, Doral Moore, Brandon Childress, Chaundee Brown, Olivier Sarr, Melo Eggleston) are on the active roster.
 
Seems like we've had a handful of "team violations" that didn't result in complete dismissal as well. But yeah, Dino had to go :rolleyes:
 
BlackjackMc said:
The record for Manning. Since his arrival twenty three scholarship student athletes have been on the basketball roster and entered WFU as freshmen.

Three (Codi Miller-McIntyre, Devin Thomas, Mitchell Wilbekin) have completed four years of eligibility.

Nine (Miles Overton, Madison Jones, Greg McClinton, Aaron Rountree, Andre Washington, Rondale Watson, Daniel Green, Donovan Mitchell, Richard Washington) have transferred prior to completing their eligibility.

Two (Cornelious Hudson, Sam Japhet-Mathias) were dismissed from the team.

Two (John Collins, Dinos Mitoglou) left early to pursue professional contracts.

Six (Bryant Crawford, Doral Moore, Brandon Childress, Chaundee Brown, Olivier Sarr, Melo Eggleston) are on the active roster.
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#buildingafoundation
 
BlackjackMc said:
The record for Manning. Since his arrival twenty three scholarship student athletes have been on the basketball roster and entered WFU as freshmen.

Three (Codi Miller-McIntyre, Devin Thomas, Mitchell Wilbekin) have completed four years of eligibility.

Nine (Miles Overton, Madison Jones, Greg McClinton, Aaron Rountree, Andre Washington, Rondale Watson, Daniel Green, Donovan Mitchell, Richard Washington) have transferred prior to completing their eligibility.

Two (Cornelious Hudson, Sam Japhet-Mathias) were dismissed from the team.

Two (John Collins, Dinos Mitoglou) left early to pursue professional contracts.

Six (Bryant Crawford, Doral Moore, Brandon Childress, Chaundee Brown, Olivier Sarr, Melo Eggleston) are on the active roster.
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A few addition to this:

Daniel Green spent 4 years at WF. He was freshman in 2011-2; he then missed two seasons with a knee injury; played limited minutes in 2014-5; he then transferred to Little Rock and played as 5th year player.

Aaron Rountree graduated in three years, and played his last year at Iona without sitting out.

Manning also has had 3 grad transfers that aren't listed above: Darius Leonard, Austin Arians, Terrence Thompson.
 
91deac said:
My 2 cents - I was coaching AAU basketball with JT Terrell's uncle, when Dino got fired. I showed up at practice one night and he was the one who told me Dino had been fired. According to him, Wellman and Dino were meeting to review the status of the program. In that meeting, Wellman told Dino the players in the program were getting out of control and that we would no longer be recruiting one-and-done type kids. He wanted to recruit talented players, but ones that would stay 4 years (get their degree) and be good representatives of Wake Forest. Dino protested, saying 'the teams that win the ACC are the teams with the most NBA talent'. Wellman demanded the change and when Dino stood his ground (he had a nice buyout), Wellman fired him.

To me, that fits well with what heard and saw in the proceeding years.
- We did have a few players that were 'majoring in pre-NBA'
- There were some disciplinary issues (debatable whether is was more than we have seen since the change)
- No way Wellman was going to announce the change in recruiting philosophy, so he blamed the March collapses
- I heard Skip say several time, the teams that consistently win the ACC are the ones with the most NBA players
- Wellman was targeting Brad Stevens, so he could implement the 4 year "butler" plan
- We know what happened when that fell through, but how many times did Wellman and Redacted mention gym rats and five-star hearts?
- The word 'Culture' became a drinking game during Wake basketball broadcasts

It seems like a foregone conclusion now, but at the time many top-tier programs (like Duke for example) where deciding whether they wanted to follow a Kentucky like 'one-and-done' model or whether bringing in more top four-year type players made the most sense. Wellman choose five-star hearts and hired an incompetent buffoon to implement his plan.

Wake basketball used to matter to me - now I barely even watch any of the games.
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And keep in mind, Stevens had a 2 and done player plus another NBA player on the roster. I can’t recall if the other guy left after year three or not. There were a couple other fringe NBA players on that Butler team as well.
 
Ball State Deac said:
And keep in mind, Stevens had a 2 and done player plus another NBA player on the roster. I can’t recall if the other guy left after year three or not. There were a couple other fringe NBA players on that Butler team as well.
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Yep. Gordon Heyward left after 2 years, and Shelvin Mack left after his junior year. Stevens is a great coach, but Butler was great in because they had great players.

Stevens last two years at Butler, when he had no NBA players:

2012 Butler finished 4th (yes, 4th) in the Horizon League behind the likes of Valpo and Cleveland State, and did not make the NCAAs. They finished the season #116 in the nation. #116. A Brad Stevens coached team.

2013 Butler finished tied for 2nd in the A-10 behind St. Louis; Butler then lost to Marquette in the round of 32, and they finished the season #42 in the country. #42. A Brad Stevens coached team.

Even the best coaches can't win they don't have players.
 
Interesting list and important addendums. (Was key on there?). Somebody should make a similar list for a peer school (who even are our peer schools in basketball?) over a similar time period with a similar coach.

I don't think we can count graduate transfers against the coach. A basic requirement of the grad transfer rule, at least in the old days, was that the new school had to have a graduate program that your old school didn't have. This can be massaged, obviously, but it seems quite silly to ask a graduating basketball player with sports or broadcasting ambitions to stay at wake for a MALS degree.

You know what would be *really* interesting, if anyone has the time or inclination: check out which degrees our recent (incoming) graduate transfers have been pursuing at wake. Did they finish their degrees? If it was a two-year degree, do they stay on campus another year after completing their basketball eligibility?

Also interesting would be to see what degrees our graduate transfers out choose to pursue at other schools. Plenty more choice transferring out than in, but still potentially significant.
 
I feel like this thread needs more bzzz pics.

If you guys are masochists like me, or just need a good laugh, go watch his interview with WXII where he was playing the invisible piano. That one and the classic "You're as good as Ryan Kelly", as he rubs Tyler Cavs back are my 2 faves.
 
wakephan09 said:
I mean, i can think of a bunch but I'm not sure they were in any way unique to Dino's tenure. There were incidents in just about every sport during the same time frame. We just take care of most of them internally.
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sure but they really ramped up under Bz's watch

makes you wonder
 
buckets said:
sure but they really ramped up under Bz's watch

makes you wonder
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I doubt that. I imagine that he was just terrible at man-management so things got out of hand in ways they haven't under other coaches.
 
wakephan09 said:
I doubt that. I imagine that he was just terrible at man-management so things got out of hand in ways they haven't under other coaches.
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My suspicion is that for whatever reasons, stuff that is usually handled internally with discipline for"breaking team rules" became public.
 
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well we shouldn't have spent any effort protecting chas. that dude is an idiot.
 
A lot of mean tags about DeacPhan. He's a california hippie, guys, take it easy on him!
 
I'm beginning to think that almost all fired coaches have the bangin coeds rumor attached to them by their fan base as a justification. Wake certainly had it as do lots of other fanbases I've talked to.
 
SC DEAC said:
I'm beginning to think that almost all fired coaches have the bangin coeds rumor attached to them by their fan base as a justification. Wake certainly had it as do lots of other fanbases I've talked to.
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Either that or a lot of coaches bang coeds and fan bases (and athletic departments) choose to pull out those indiscretions when its convenient to foment negative energy against a coach. When a coach is winning Natty's, he can even bang wives of others in the athletic department in a public place, like a restaurant, and everybody is cool with it.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
I feel like this thread needs more bzzz pics.

If you guys are masochists like me, or just need a good laugh, go watch his interview with WXII where he was playing the invisible piano. That one and the classic "You're as good as Ryan Kelly", as he rubs Tyler Cavs back are my 2 faves.
Click to expand...

We need to get WXII's Margaret Johnson on Manning and have her shred him like she did [name redacted]. Truly a bright spot in a dark time. One of the greatest awkward interviews in the history of sports journalism.

52f18f40226d3.image.jpg
 
Ralph Medlin said:
We need to get WXII's Margaret Johnson on Manning and have her shred him like she did [name redacted]. Truly a bright spot in a dark time. One of the greatest awkward interviews in the history of sports journalism.

52f18f40226d3.image.jpg
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When sweet Margaret Johnson, who is better known for "pets of the week" and recipe sharing, drills your pathetic excuse for a basketball coach a new one, you can be pretty assured the program has hit rock bottom. It was definitely a classic.
 
Does anyone in the athletic department have the balls to do a state of the program interview? Fans want answers or at the very least a vision of where the team is going Ron.....
 
Stan Gable said:
Does anyone in the athletic department have the balls to do a state of the program interview? Fans want answers or at the very least a vision of where the team is going Ron.....
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Just finished looking at the March 2018 issue of Gold Rush. Nothing in there on basketball, either M or W, other than a listing of where former players are playing professionally.

The silence speaks volumes.
 
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