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Dino to Louisville

One part of the "culture" issue that has been little discussed is the academic side. The perception of Wake as a top academic school is extremely important to those in Reynolda. When anything even slightly threatens that perception, it has to change.

Basketball players are expected to be students first. Basketball is what they do to get the scholarship to attend the University. Comments that came from players about "pre-NBA" as the major didn't sit well. That was perceived as disrespectful to the academic side. It isn't about athletes leaving Wake before graduation to accept lucrative contracts to play professional sports. Its about how a student-athlete, while officially a student at Wake, needs to not disrespect the academic side of being a student athlete. Something like "I'm just a freshman/sophomore, I'm still looking at some different ones." would play a lot better in the "culture" realm.

One thing many learn early on is "don't embarrass the boss." A high profile athlete seen and heard publicly as not supportive of the student part of student athlete is perceived as embarrassing the institution that is providing the opportunity for the student to further his basketball ambitions.

Duke has become a one-and-done basketball factory. Has that strategy negatively impacted the perception of Duke as a top academic school?
 
Even if this was Wellman's position (which would be idiotic), there is no sign that the current program operates under such restrictions. WF went all-out to sign Giles (and he was the most obvious one and done player in that class). Hoard may be a one and done, and WF has offered other players that were very likely one and dones. Do not doubt that among the reasons Wellman considered before terminating Dino was "the character" of the players that WF was recruiting (particularly related to the publicity that WF received as the result of the band girl's appearance on the Today Show), but not sure if WF ever wanted to eliminate itself from players that might look enter the NBA early. Every ACC school offers "a development platform" for future professional athletes. No school can be competitive at basketball or football (or soccer or baseball for that matter) at this level if it intentionally excludes itself from being a training ground for earning a living in that sport.

Obviously this horse is very dead at this point, but the band girl incident happened before Wellman signed Dino to an extension, and the offending player was a captain on [Redacted]'s first team. That never made any sense as an example of why we made the change.

Also, I think we probably need to dial back the talk about Hoard being one-and-done. Seems fairly unlikely.
 
Duke has become a one-and-done basketball factory. Has that strategy negatively impacted the perception of Duke as a top academic school?

Duke has a lot longer track record as a nationally recognized academic school. Wake is relatively recently out of the Regional university category into National university category. New kid on the block syndrome and all that. Duke's one and done guys are generally recognized as top 10 or so HS recruits. They were generally regarded as having NBA potential from day 1. The Wake guys talking about "pre-NBA" majors were top 100. Not generally recognized as NBA guys right out of High School. Pre-NBA gives the perception to listeners and readers that academics aren't important.

NBA may well be the goal of many basketball players recruited to Wake. The players need to understand that part of the bargain is that they need to maintain the student part while at Wake, and at least act like it is important to them, and that while they are in school, they are actively working toward a degree from Wake.
 
I don’t think Duke was really known as a top national university on par with the Ivies until the 80s. This is just based on memory and some knowledge of Duke history.
 
I don’t think Duke was really known as a top national university on par with the Ivies until the 80s. This is just based on memory and some knowledge of Duke history.

Part of that memory is that US News & World Report first published their college rankings in 1983. Duke has always been top 10 in their National Universities rankings.

Duke started with an initial endowment of about $40 million in 1924 dollars (nearly half a billion in today's money). It has had the reputation of being the premier private (segregated, white) school in the south since it was put together in something close to its current configuration in the late 1930's. Duke desegregated in 1963 and Martin Luther King spoke on campus the next year. Duke's reputation as a leading national university predates it appearance in the initial USN&WR rankings as a top 10.

In 1967, Wake was trying to figure out whether allowing dancing on campus would bring obliteration by fire and brimstone.
 
did JJ go to class at all his final spring semester?

seem to recall rumors that he did not and that this irked Wellman
 
did JJ go to class at all his final spring semester?

seem to recall rumors that he did not and that this irked Wellman

That is what would not sit well, particularly if Dino was arguing he needed more players "like that." Wake tries very hard to maintain the student part of student athlete. That has to be part of what the coaches espouse and also what the players have to present publicly. If Dino wasn't willing to go there, it is not surprising he became an ex coach quickly.

It is not so much the leaving early as it is the not embracing academics while at Wake. Leave Wake early for millions? OK, as long as your academics are acceptable up until you leave. Wake may be more concerned than many other schools about the APR numbers.
 
Which is ironic, because our numbers must suck for basketball right now.
 
Part of that memory is that US News & World Report first published their college rankings in 1983. Duke has always been top 10 in their National Universities rankings.

Duke started with an initial endowment of about $40 million in 1924 dollars (nearly half a billion in today's money). It has had the reputation of being the premier private (segregated, white) school in the south since it was put together in something close to its current configuration in the late 1930's. Duke desegregated in 1963 and Martin Luther King spoke on campus the next year. Duke's reputation as a leading national university predates it appearance in the initial USN&WR rankings as a top 10.

In 1967, Wake was trying to figure out whether allowing dancing on campus would bring obliteration by fire and brimstone.

LOL. Good post.
 
I don't think they are hurt as long as anyone who leaves early is in academic good standing when they leave, right?

Yes. Players who leave a school for professional opportunities don't hurt as long as they are in good standing when they leave. That is why James Johnson not going to class probably didn't set well. Departures of players in good academic standing don't bring so much angst.
 
Part of that memory is that US News & World Report first published their college rankings in 1983. Duke has always been top 10 in their National Universities rankings.

Duke started with an initial endowment of about $40 million in 1924 dollars (nearly half a billion in today's money). It has had the reputation of being the premier private (segregated, white) school in the south since it was put together in something close to its current configuration in the late 1930's. Duke desegregated in 1963 and Martin Luther King spoke on campus the next year. Duke's reputation as a leading national university predates it appearance in the initial USN&WR rankings as a top 10.

In 1967, Wake was trying to figure out whether allowing dancing on campus would bring obliteration by fire and brimstone.

:dagger
 
Dino's players quit on him at the end of his last two seasons. When I spend time and money to attend the ACC tourney, I expect to see effort and there was none. We were 15 point favorite over Miami for Pete's sake. Jimmy Graham may gave been the best player on the court that day and he was no great shakes as a bball player. Those failures plus the band incident were enough to give Dino the pink slip. Too bad the replacement hire wasn't a much better choice.
 
Dino's players quit on him at the end of his last two seasons. When I spend time and money to attend the ACC tourney, I expect to see effort and there was none. We were 15 point favorite over Miami for Pete's sake. Jimmy Graham may gave been the best player on the court that day and he was no great shakes as a bball player. Those failures plus the band incident were enough to give Dino the pink slip. Too bad the replacement hire wasn't a much better choice.

that's impressive, since Jimmy Graham didn't even play in that game having used his eligibility up the previous year

believe you're thinking of Reggie Johnson
 
As pointed out before the "band incident" was before he was extended.

It's pretty clear at tbis point ronnie did not like dino and made up b.s. to fire him. The [Redacted] debacle should have gotten lil ronnie fired.
 
The Duke family tried to buy Princeton but Princeton said no. So, they ended up with Trinity College in Durham.

Myth: In the mid-1920s James Buchanan Duke offered Princeton a fortune if it would change its name to Duke. When Princeton refused, he instead gave the money to Trinity College in North Carolina, which soon changed its name to Duke University.

Fact: There is no evidence to support the claim that Duke ever offered any money to Princeton. The origin of the myth may be that Duke had an estate in nearby Somerville and admired Princeton's architecture enough to insist that the new buildings at Trinity be built in the collegiate Gothic style.
 
One part of the "culture" issue that has been little discussed is the academic side. The perception of Wake as a top academic school is extremely important to those in Reynolda. When anything even slightly threatens that perception, it has to change.

Basketball players are expected to be students first. Basketball is what they do to get the scholarship to attend the University. Comments that came from players about "pre-NBA" as the major didn't sit well. That was perceived as disrespectful to the academic side. It isn't about athletes leaving Wake before graduation to accept lucrative contracts to play professional sports. Its about how a student-athlete, while officially a student at Wake, needs to not disrespect the academic side of being a student athlete. Something like "I'm just a freshman/sophomore, I'm still looking at some different ones." would play a lot better in the "culture" realm.

One thing many learn early on is "don't embarrass the boss." A high profile athlete seen and heard publicly as not supportive of the student part of student athlete is perceived as embarrassing the institution that is providing the opportunity for the student to further his basketball ambitions.

I wonder how the perception of academics is damaged by a decade of incompetence in it's most recognized sport. Do people just think the academic department is run brilliantly while the athletic department is run like Goober from Mayberry was in charge?

That would not be my perception.
 
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