• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Wake Forest Offseason Basketball Thread: Deacs in Inaugural Myrtle Beach Invitational

CharlotteDeac1 said:
I'm not going anywhere and will take the full force of the "told ya" that I'll assuredly get if we suck next year.

I will not be making excuses, and I don't particularly think I've been making many (if any) "excuses" to this point. Excuses and reasons aren't the same thing to me, and I went into the Manning tenure with the mindset of giving him five years to turn around the Bzzaster. Next year is it for me, and even if we do perform to standards there are other factors that could cause me to still be incredibly skeptical of Manning (namely our 2019 recruiting class).
Click to expand...

That's a reasonable stance, sort of. I still don't get the 5 year thing. I think how you do in your first 4 years should determine how many years you get. If things looked promising but the results had not yet really shown up, then yes, more time. I just don't think any one should expect competence in year 5 when it has not been there in the previous 4.

BZ should never have gotten year 2 or year 3. Dino deserved more time. Closing your eyes for 5 years and then making an assessment seems crazy.
 
knowell said:
That's a reasonable stance, sort of. I still don't get the 5 year thing. I think how you do in your first 4 years should determine how many years you get. If things looked promising but the results had not yet really shown up, then yes, more time. I just don't think any one should expect competence in year 5 when it has not been there in the previous 4.

BZ should never have gotten year 2 or year 3. Dino deserved more time. Closing your eyes for 5 years and then making an assessment seems crazy.
Click to expand...

I went in thinking 5 years, but if we had four seasons like 1, 2, and 4 then I would be on the other side of the fence. Season three was a show of competence in my opinion, as I didn't expect going into the Manning tenure that we would make the tourney in year 3. 4 was a large step back - now season five is the deciding factor for me. Steady progress would have probably eased some minds here rather than a spike in year 3 and drop in year 4, but it is what it is at this point.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
I went in thinking 5 years, but if we had four seasons like 1, 2, and 4 then I would be on the other side of the fence. Season three was a show of competence in my opinion, as I didn't expect going into the Manning tenure that we would make the tourney in year 3. 4 was a large step back - now season five is the deciding factor for me. Steady progress would have probably eased some minds here rather than a spike in year 3 and drop in year 4, but it is what it is at this point.
Click to expand...

Beyond the record, have you seen competence from Manning? Don't you think we would have had at least one season that was somewhere near average defensively if Manning should be here?

All 4 years have been very bad defensively for a power 5 team.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
Yeah Clemson should be good again next year. How is Notre Dame going to be with Colson and Farrell gone? Still have Gibbs and Pfleuger with a top 10 class coming in.
Click to expand...

The first 2019 bracketology had 11 ACC teams dancing w/ Notre Dame, GT, Wake, & Pitt as the outsiders.
 
daaberry said:
The first 2019 bracketology had 11 ACC teams dancing w/ Notre Dame, GT, Wake, & Pitt as the outsiders.
Click to expand...

Realize that Joe Lunardi has nothing else to do, but beyond stupid.
 
knowell said:
Beyond the record, have you seen competence from Manning? Don't you think we would have had at least one season that was somewhere near average defensively if Manning should be here?

All 4 years have been very bad defensively for a power 5 team.
Click to expand...

Yeah, defense without question has been terri-bad. I want to see if it improves when we have good athletes but there's no arguing we haven't been a good defensive team. My perspective is just different than others because all I want is to get to the tournament and succeed there, I don't care one bit if it's from good defense or good offense. We had an elite offense that year and that showed me that Manning is capable of playing to the team's strengths (he has also shown how capable he is of doing the exact opposite).

daaberry said:
The first 2019 bracketology had 11 ACC teams dancing w/ Notre Dame, GT, Wake, & Pitt as the outsiders.
Click to expand...

TJDK
 
It's always disappointing to see un-funny tags. I mean, most all of you went to Wake - at least be creative and incorporate my name into a phrase or something that's enjoyable.
 
Wake just released the conference home/away schedule for next season and it matches up with the first post on the thread
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
Yeah, defense without question has been terri-bad. I want to see if it improves when we have good athletes but there's no arguing we haven't been a good defensive team. My perspective is just different than others because all I want is to get to the tournament and succeed there, I don't care one bit if it's from good defense or good offense. We had an elite offense that year and that showed me that Manning is capable of playing to the team's strengths (he has also shown how capable he is of doing the exact opposite).



TJDK
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone cares whether Wake does well based on defense or offense. That said, you cannot be really poor at either and succeed. Manning has shown that he is not only clueless defensively, but unwilling to learn or change his defensive philosophy. We have seen Wakes ceiling unless Manning goes to a Defensive Coaching Camp in the off season.

A 5th year will not change that.
 
That's a fair opinion I'm not going to argue or disagree with because we have no evidence of the contrary. I'm solely taking the stance that having significantly better athletes that can play sufficient or better man defense will make a notable difference (hoping, I guess).
 
Only a final 4 run could come close to making up for the pain and suffering we have endured over the last 9 years.
 
Too bad we don't have a good team because those would be some fun home games to watch Wake win. At this point instead of being there I will probably wait for the ESPN app to update me on the losing score.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
Yeah, defense without question has been terri-bad. I want to see if it improves when we have good athletes...
Click to expand...

What will that prove though? That Manning's defensive system/coaching is so bad that it solely relies on better athletes to be something better than awful?
 
RacerDeac said:
What will that prove though? That Manning's defensive system/coaching is so bad that it solely relies on better athletes to be something better than awful?
Click to expand...

To answer your question directly, no. Manning clearly isn't some defensive genius, but good athletic defenders can make any coach's scheme look good. I'm not absolving Manning of blame at all, just saying your personnel is incredibly important. I think it's pretty established that I think player ability is much more important than others on the boards do.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
To answer your question directly, no. Manning clearly isn't some defensive genius, but good athletic defenders can make any coach's scheme look good. I'm not absolving Manning of blame at all, just saying your personnel is incredibly important. I think it's pretty established that I think player ability is much more important than others on the boards do.
Click to expand...

Were we less athletic last year than this year? Was Manning's 2014 team just filled with freak athletes that he can't recruit to Wake for some reason? Why did we lack athletic defenders the last four seasons when other schools who recruit further down the rungs had no problem finding "athletic defenders"?
 
RacerDeac said:
Were we less athletic last year than this year? Was Manning's 2014 team just filled with freak athletes that he can't recruit to Wake for some reason? Why did we lack athletic defenders the last four seasons when other schools who recruit further down the rungs had no problem finding "athletic defenders"?
Click to expand...

What are you using to determine defensive rankings? I tend to default to KP.

to answer in order:
-Doral Moore is a better defender than Collins, TT is a wash, Chaundee is more athletic than Arians, Craw is Craw, Wilbekin is Wilbekin, Key is Key. Our defense was better this year than last but still not good. So, yes.
-I don't know anything about Manning's 2014 team with Tulsa so I can't give an answer to that. All I can do is look at his roster but that doesn't tell near the whole story and I don't care near enough to watch Tulsa game film from 2014.
-To me, there is no excuse for Craw to be a bad defender. I don't know what that's about. Dinos got better as he got older but still wasn't good. Wilbekin was neither athletic or a good defender. Collins was athletic but a bad defender, possibly so that he wouldn't foul out all the time and we'd be screwed without him on the court. Doral is a good post defender. Key is not athletic or a good defender. The 2016 class was a bust. Chaundee is a very good defender. I would guess Hoard and Mucius will be good defenders, and Lewis was lauded for his defense before he got injured.

Again, not absolving Manning of blame but your personnel is very important to your success.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top