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Doral Moore Hiring an Agent, Entering NBA Draft

Pilchard said:
He must not like WF a lot to choose playing for Fort Wayne Mad Ants or the Muratbey Usak Sportif (the popular Usak entry in Turkish Super Ligi) over free room, food, tuition, swag and a stipend at Wake Forest. Hope he proves the world wrong and plays in the NBA next year, but if not, hope he finds what he is looking for in the hard scrabble professional basketball world below the NBA.
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Because guys like Richard Solomon are making $250,000+ to play for Muratbey Usak Sportif, that's why.
 
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rgbchen1979 said:
The average fan don't give a hoot about perspective, or the continual use of the "we don't know how bad of shape Bz left the program in" excuse. The average fan does care about a program in it's 5th year with the 20 loss seasons and 14th place finishes coming at a never equaled rate, along with players leaving in droves. Makes it real hard for the average fan to see the vast improvement we are continually told that Manning and the boys have achieved.
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You mean to tell me that you aren't proud of our #89 Kenpom, #93 BPI, and #158 RPI rankings from this past season?!?! We GOT INTO THE TOURNAMENT LAST YEAR!!!! If you can't see that we're on the way up, you're just not looking. #MannIn!!
 
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vadimivich said:
Because guys like Richard Solomon are making $250,000+ to play for Muratbey Usak Sportif, that's why.
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Lol, yeah, there's a lot of decent money overseas. Lotta dumb posts in this thread.
 
Not to mention using US dollars to describe the value of playing in another country.
 
PhDeac said:
Not to mention using US dollars to describe the value of playing in another country.
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A lot of contracts are written with US $ guaranteed amounts for foreign players, especially in countries with more volatile currency. And generally in european leagues, contracts include room/board and a car to use and tax is paid before the amount (i.e - $250k = $250 take home).
 
Oh sure but they’re spending much of that money living outside the US.
 
PhDeac said:
Not to mention using US dollars to describe the value of playing in another country.
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Yeah, but he should tough it out for a year to bank his degree and then do all that. I get it that playing for basketball at Wake is probably not a lot of fun, and the money and allure of playing overseas now is tempting, but he is so close to getting a degree walking away now seems dumb.
 
WFcatamount22 said:
Yeah, but he should tough it out for a year to bank his degree and then do all that. I get it that playing for basketball at Wake is probably not a lot of fun, and the money and allure of playing overseas now is tempting, but he is so close to getting a degree walking away now seems dumb.
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Getting a degree can be done later and over time. You don't get back your youth, and his ability to earn money as a basketball player depends on it.
 
PhDeac said:
Oh sure but they’re spending much of that money living outside the US.
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You are implying Turkey has a higher cost of living than the USA - especially since housing/transportation is paid for? Playing in one of the European leagues is a pretty sweet deal, frankly. Outside of Europe, maybe not so much - but any of the big EuroLeague leagues pay well and you bank a lot of $$.
 
Moore is not leaving Wake Forest early because he thinks he can make a good living in Turkey.

He wants to play in the NBA.
 
I am going to eat shit on this thread for a bit, but Wellman is no dummy. Now, that doesn't prevent him for making the wrong hire (bzd), the wrong decision in a moment of crisis/tragedy (Dino), but we do not know who turned us down prior to Manning (except for RJ).

The thing a lot of posters on here can afford to ignore is timing and perception of the program. We all want instant gratification. I love bread. I want to eat it whenever I see it. I want to drink it in liquid form from lunch to late. I, like I assume a lot of you, have learned to control that want in order to stay relatively fit and healthy.

You want a good next coach? You give Manning another year. You want another 5-year stretch of middling results, fire him 6 weeks ago. The thing Bzd did to our program was take the magnetism out of the program. It is a hard sell these days to get a kid to consider Wake, despite CP3. Bzd did that. Wellman did that via Bzd. Manning has had to make it a place to desire. He had to do that with style pf play. And his narrative. Unfortunately, it is a job that seems to reward the charismatic guy at the end of the bar who tells just fucking awesome stories. The Billy Donovans, the Rick Pitinos. Some of those guys are also great coaches. Some are not. Manning is most definitely NOT in the charismatic part of the family tree. Which makes him have to work extra hard. He needs an assistant with some flaws, though morally okay to good, who can fill that role. Not sure if we have that guy on staff right now, but I would assume Jones comes the closest.

Anywho - we are adding a consensus 5-star player next year who really really wants to be one-and-done. If he and Craw and 4 or 5 others lead us to 18-20 wins and an NCAA birth, well that will be fun and Manning will have earned himself another year and some momentum - the type of momentum we SEEM to have squandered after John Collins sophomore year happened (but did it? Collins begat Hoard IMO). I do think that needs to parlay into a 2019 signing that hasn't yet happened. Which will tough. But if we win 14 games or 16 games, Hoard leaves and we make no post season, I think Wellman will fire Manning with a better chance at hiring the next great coach. Even then, to be perfectly blunt, it won't be an ideal situation. Not unless Coach K decides to hang up the grecian formula and/or Roy Williams takes his god dern act into retirement opening an opportunity at Wake for a young coach to think he might be able to turn Wake into the next Duke ...

So to summarize. Cutting the Manning cord after Year 4 a year removed from the John Collins year would have resulted in our 3rd or 4th choice hire. While there are no guarantees that next year would be any better, I think most coaches considering Wake would be on board with a firing after two shitty years in a row. Despite starting this post with a pro-Wellman nod, the man in the way of the NEXT great Wake coaching hire is Wellman himself. Not because he is an idiot, but because if I am a hot young coach, I see an old man at AD that is going to be gone in 5 years or less. Where does that leave me? If Wellman DOES fire Manning at the end of next year, I hope he has the good sense to step down himself. I doubt he will, but that would be the best result as far as a new coach is concerned.

I have learned from being a Spurs fan, to enjoy the ride. Most great seasons will not result in a Final 4. That doesn't make the year NOT fun. This past year was not fun. Manning cannot afford a 2nd unfun year in a row or he is gone.
 
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vadimivich said:
You are implying Turkey has a higher cost of living than the USA - especially since housing/transportation is paid for? Playing in one of the European leagues is a pretty sweet deal, frankly. Outside of Europe, maybe not so much - but any of the big EuroLeague leagues pay well and you bank a lot of $$.
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I’m implying that people talking about the minimum he could make overseas don’t understand how far that could go.
 
jaybone said:
I am going to eat shit on this thread for a bit, but Wellman is no dummy. Now, that doesn't prevent him for making the wrong hire (bzd), the wrong decision in a moment of crisis/tragedy (Dino), but we do not know who turned us down prior to Manning (except for RJ).

The thing a lot of posters on here can afford to ignore is timing and perception of the program. We all want instant gratification. I love bread. I want to eat it whenever I see it. I want to drink it in liquid form from lunch to late. I, like I assume a lot of you, have learned to control that want in order to stay relatively fit and healthy.

You want a good next coach? You give Manning another year. You want another 5-year stretch of middling results, fire him 6 weeks ago. The thing Bzd did to our program was take the magnetism out of the program. It is a hard sell these days to get a kid to consider Wake, despite CP3. Bzd did that. Wellman did that via Bzd. Manning has had to make it a place to desire. He had to do that with style pf play. And his narrative. Unfortunately, it is a job that seems to reward the charismatic guy at the end of the bar who tells just fucking awesome stories. The Billy Donovans, the Rick Pitinos. Some of those guys are also great coaches. Some are not. Manning is most definitely NOT in the charismatic part of the family tree. Which makes him have to work extra hard. He needs an assistant with some flaws, though morally okay to good, who can fill that role. Not sure if we have that guy on staff right now, but I would assume Jones comes the closest.

Anywho - we are adding a consensus 5-star player next year who really really wants to be one-and-done. If he and Craw and 4 or 5 others lead us to 18-20 wins and an NCAA birth, well that will be fun and Manning will have earned himself another year and some momentum - the type of momentum we SEEM to have squandered after John Collins sophomore year happened (but did it? Collins begat Hoard IMO). I do think that needs to parlay into a 2019 signing that hasn't yet happened. Which will tough. But if we win 14 games or 16 games, Hoard leaves and we make no post season, I think Wellman will fire Manning with a better chance at hiring the next great coach. Even then, to be perfectly blunt, it won't be an ideal situation. Not unless Coach K decides to hang up the grecian formula and/or Roy Williams takes his god dern act into retirement opening an opportunity at Wake for a young coach to think he might be able to turn Wake into the next Duke ...

So to summarize. Cutting the Manning cord after Year 4 a year removed from the John Collins year would have resulted in our 3rd or 4th choice hire. While there are no guarantees that next year would be any better, I think most coaches considering Wake would be on board with a firing after two shitty years in a row. Despite starting this post with a pro-Wellman nod, the man in the way of the NEXT great Wake coaching hire is Wellman himself. Not because he is an idiot, but because if I am a hot young coach, I see an old man at AD that is going to be gone in 5 years or less. Where does that leave me? If Wellman DOES fire Manning at the end of next year, I hope he has the good sense to step down himself. I doubt he will, but that would be the best result as far as a new coach is concerned.

I have learned from being a Spurs fan, to enjoy the ride. Most great seasons will not result in a Final 4. That doesn't make the year NOT fun. This past year was not fun. Manning cannot afford a 2nd unfun year in a row or he is gone.
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The good news is that for some CRAZY reason, no major program has hired Wes Miller yet! If Manning fails, there is a SMALL chance we could pry him away from that 10 year UNC-G contract...we may have dodged a bullet this offseason.
 
Wrangor said:
The good news is that for some CRAZY reason, no major program has hired Wes Miller yet! If Manning fails, there is a SMALL chance we could pry him away from that 10 year UNC-G contract...we may have dodged a bullet this offseason.
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Also Pat Kelsey will be out from under the UMass agreement. #options!
 
just throwing something out there

there is no such thing as an average wake forest fan. we are a special group of mentally challenged individuals with a unique chemical imbalance that draws us toward pain and suffering.
 
RacerDeac said:
You mean to tell me that you aren't proud of our #89 Kenpom, #93 BPI, and #158 RPI rankings from this past season?!?! We GOT INTO THE TOURNAMENT LAST YEAR!!!! If you can't see that we're on the way up, you're just not looking. #MannIn!!
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Yeh, yeh, yeh, you know I forgot, I really did, that big KP89 completely slipped my mind and I apologize, but you know RD, I may be old, I may be forgetful, I may be the average fan, and I may not be all that smart, but there's one thing that I ain't, and that would be dumb enough to think that you're #MannIn.
 
RacerDeac said:
You guys keep saying this, without any actual evidence it's true.
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I am with you on that one, but that is two separate discussions. The first is whether Manning deserves to be fired this offseason (we disagree on that). The second is if Wellman is competent to not only make the right decision at the right time, but additionally if necessary, make the right hire if he lets go of Manning (on that I am pretty sure we both agree).

I am not confident in any basketball decisions from Wellman after [Redacted]. That hire showed such a lack of understanding of the current game that no matter what Manning does or no matter what the next potential coach does, I won't trust Wellman to make the right decision with regards to basketball.
 
WakeForest Fan said:
just throwing something out there

there is no such thing as an average wake forest fan. we are a special group of mentally challenged individuals with a unique chemical imbalance that draws us toward pain and suffering.
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Believe me, I am tremendously more of an average WF fan than I was a few short years ago, in fact I'm precariously close to not being a WF basketball fan at all.
 
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Wrangor said:
I am with you on that one, but that is two separate discussions. The first is whether Manning deserves to be fired this offseason (we disagree on that). The second is if Wellman is competent to not only make the right decision at the right time, but additionally if necessary, make the right hire if he lets go of Manning (on that I am pretty sure we both agree).

I am not confident in any basketball decisions from Wellman after [Redacted]. That hire showed such a lack of understanding of the current game that no matter what Manning does or no matter what the next potential coach does, I won't trust Wellman to make the right decision with regards to basketball.
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Me two!
 
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