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Family Separation at the Border: US citizens are now being detained

Deacon923 said:
it is certainly possible that Trump, or more intelligent and devious people like Stephen Miller, wanted pressure to build at the border in the hopes of engineering a scene like this so Trump could look tough. However, when people go crazy over the tear gas incident they actually play right into Miller's hands. He and his cohorts want the focus to be on rioting at the border and not on the humanitarian issues that are actually causing it.
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I know you don’t mean this post to sound as awful as it sounds, but damn. You seem to forget that those attempting to cross the border have motivations to do so that many of us can never comprehend.

We treat politics as a game in the United States, but that’s a privilege of perspective.
 
Strickland33 said:
I know you don’t mean this post to sound as awful as it sounds, but damn. You seem to forget that those attempting to cross the border have motivations to do so that many of us can never comprehend.

We treat politics as a game in the United States, but that’s a privilege of perspective.
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to guys like Miller, it certainly is a game. When the media takes their eye off the real issues - failed states in Central America, no humanitarian aid to the migrants awaiting processing, deliberate slow-walking and cruelty by the administration to try and "deter" migrants - Miller wins.
 
Strickland33 said:
I know you don’t mean this post to sound as awful as it sounds, but damn. You seem to forget that those attempting to cross the border have motivations to do so that many of us can never comprehend.

We treat politics as a game in the United States, but that’s a privilege of perspective.
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923 said the focus should be on the humanitarian issues. There's nothing awful about his post at all.
 
Deacon923 said:
I will register a bit of a contrarian take on the events over the weekend (at least, contrarian for this board). While I am no supporter of Trump in general or his immigration policies in particular, I am not ready to equate non-lethal crowd control measures directed at people rushing our border security with the Holocaust. Open borders theorizing aside, large majorities of the American people want reasonably secure borders and do not want to see masses of people rushing across while law enforcement authorities stand aside. Naturally I would prefer that the United States do much, much more to prevent these scenes ever happening in the first place. For starters we could have a rational and proactive immigration policy that isn't riddled with racism. Failing that the Trump administration could and should allocate resources to the border so that asylum claims can be processed at a quicker pace, and could and should provide humanitarian aid to the people stuck in Tijuana waiting on the glacial pace of asylum admissions.

Nonetheless, and despite the fact that Trump could have done more to prevent the rush ever happening, an attempt to forcibly cross the border did occur. Defending the border in this manner is far from the worst possible outcome and I am not sure that past administrations would have done anything much different faced with the same circumstances.
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Same here. No Trump defender either, but if a group of people is throwing rocks at border agents and attempting to 'storm' the gate, the use of non-lethal, crowd dispersing tear gas doesn't seem extreme. This is a red herring to the real discussion (how can we address the humanitarian issues that cause people to attempt this type of entry, and how can we streamline our immigration policy to make it so that good people can immigrate, and needy people can be granted asylum), and it really plays into Trumps hand to make this the issue, because this is red meat for his base.
 
Deacon923 said:
to guys like Miller, it certainly is a game. When the media takes their eye off the real issues - failed states in Central America, no humanitarian aid to the migrants awaiting processing, deliberate slow-walking and cruelty by the administration to try and "deter" migrants - Miller wins.
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DistrictDeacon said:
923 said the focus should be on the humanitarian issues. There's nothing awful about his post at all.
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I'm not going to shift any blame at all whatsoever at the migrants who have traveled to Mexico and who are "rioting" at the border (whatever you mean by that, the word has certain connotations about what folks are actually doing).

I'm on board with blaming frothing-at-the-mouth liberals who cynically exploit Trump's cruelty (and play into the administration's hands by doing so) for ratings and clicks, but I don't think the refugees in the caravan bear any responsibility for what is currently being done to them by our country.
 
Wrangor said:
Same here. No Trump defender either, but if a group of people is throwing rocks at border agents and attempting to 'storm' the gate, the use of non-lethal, crowd dispersing tear gas doesn't seem extreme. This is a red herring to the real discussion (how can we address the humanitarian issues that cause people to attempt this type of entry, and how can we streamline our immigration policy to make it so that good people can immigrate, and needy people can be granted asylum), and it really plays into Trumps hand to make this the issue, because this is red meat for his base.
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It's dispersing chemical weapons into a foreign country. That's a big deal.
 
Wrangor said:
Same here. No Trump defender either, but if a group of people is throwing rocks at border agents and attempting to 'storm' the gate, the use of non-lethal, crowd dispersing tear gas doesn't seem extreme. This is a red herring to the real discussion (how can we address the humanitarian issues that cause people to attempt this type of entry, and how can we streamline our immigration policy to make it so that good people can immigrate, and needy people can be granted asylum), and it really plays into Trumps hand to make this the issue, because this is red meat for his base.
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Vacant is the ambassador for a lot of countries these days.
 
Had to use teargas b/c of a risk to safety to these guys:

https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cnn.com%2Fcnnnext%2Fdam%2Fassets%2F181126144521-10-migrant-border-clashes.jpg
 
to be fair they could get threatened by a projectile wielding child
 
Where was the outrage from the Tunnels Left when US Customs and Border Protection used tear gas 26 times in 2012 and 27 times in 2013?

And what about all of the teeth gnashing from the left when pepper spray was used in 151 border incidents in 2013?

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/26/obama-administration-used-tear-gas-border-once-mon/

I just can't put my finger on the reason why these past incidents didn't get the same attention from the MSM or on Twitter...

Will one of the many intellectual giants on the Tunnels Left shed some light on this mystery?
 
Because the Piece of Shit in Chief's racist fearmongering campaign has brought attention to the issue?
 
Colonel Angus said:
Where was the outrage from the Tunnels Left when US Customs and Border Protection used tear gas 26 times in 2012 and 27 times in 2013?

And what about all of the teeth gnashing from the left when pepper spray was used in 151 border incidents in 2013?

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/26/obama-administration-used-tear-gas-border-once-mon/

I just can't put my finger on the reason why these past incidents didn't get the same attention from the MSM or on Twitter...

Will one of the many intellectual giants on the Tunnels Left shed some light on this mystery?
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Both sides !
 
Colonel Angus said:
Where was the outrage from the Tunnels Left when US Customs and Border Protection used tear gas 26 times in 2012 and 27 times in 2013?

And what about all of the teeth gnashing from the left when pepper spray was used in 151 border incidents in 2013?

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/26/obama-administration-used-tear-gas-border-once-mon/

I just can't put my finger on the reason why these past incidents didn't get the same attention from the MSM or on Twitter...

Will one of the many intellectual giants on the Tunnels Left shed some light on this mystery?
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Were any of those incidents preceded by deploying ~6000 US Military personnel to the border, days before an election, as a political stunt to sway the election results? Did Obama spend the preceding two years referring to Mexicans crossing the border as rapists and murderers (and probably some good people)?
 
The memo, obtained exclusively by The Associated Press, says the former director of the federal Office of Refugee Resettlement personally signed off on sidestepping requirements for child abuse and neglect checks at the tent city in Tornillo, Texas.
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And rest assured when children accuse government workers of child abuse and neglect, Republicans will say they're lying.

Republicans DO NOT CARE about children once they leave the womb.
 
Newenglanddeac said:
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:eek:

PhDeac said:
And rest assured when children accuse government workers of child abuse and neglect, Republicans will say they're lying.

Republicans DO NOT CARE about children once they leave the womb.
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I assume that's this former director of the federal office of Refugee Resettlement:

The Trump official who tried to stop a detained immigrant from getting an abortion

Lloyd has personally intervened to try to persuade unaccompanied minor girls not to have abortions, according to an HHS official.

“When there’s a child in the program who is pregnant, he has been reaching out to her and trying to help as much as possible with life-affirming options,” the spokesman said. “He by law has custody of these children, and just like a foster parent, he knows that that’s a lot of responsibility and he is going to make choices that he thinks are best for both the mother and the child.”
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Instances where he personally gets involved:

- blocking teenagers' access to abortions
- sidestepping requirements for child abuse and neglect checks at a detention center for children
 
Wrangor said:
Same here. No Trump defender either, but if a group of people is throwing rocks at border agents and attempting to 'storm' the gate, the use of non-lethal, crowd dispersing tear gas doesn't seem extreme. This is a red herring to the real discussion (how can we address the humanitarian issues that cause people to attempt this type of entry, and how can we streamline our immigration policy to make it so that good people can immigrate, and needy people can be granted asylum), and it really plays into Trumps hand to make this the issue, because this is red meat for his base.
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Lobbing tear gas canisters into a group containing women and children is always extreme. Especially when you artificially created the situation causing that group to “storm the gates.”

I agree that the most effective way to combat Trump and the extremism he represents is to not play into his attempts to control the media narrative, but you can’t just ignore the horrible shit his administration does along the way in order to drive that narrative.
 
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