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Bryant Crawford Hiring An Agent, Staying in Draft

Well, I think you are pretty much the only person who thinks it makes sense - besides maybe that Tricky person - so I don't really think I need to explain it.

Nah. He's not. It's been discussed in the Moore thread already.
 

The response to the tweet referenced by Goodman sums up how the world outside of our little bubble views us:

 
I like Singh's retweet:

"A 51-year-old woman named Donna Lange killed her boyfriend by suffocating him with her 38DD boobs."
 
Well, I think you are pretty much the only person who thinks it makes sense - besides maybe that Tricky person - so I don't really think I need to explain it.

I guess your argument is that eventually Crawford will stop playing basketball and need to find a job. Having a Wake degree will help him with that.

The counter argument is that Crawford is good enough to have a decent career professionally. He'll be paid a tax-free 6-figure salary immediately with most of his expenses covered by the team. At the point when he stops playing basketball and wants to have a second career, it's unlikely that the Wake degree from 2019 will do much. If that career involves basketball his "work experience" is better. And if he wants to go back and get his degree, he can do that at WFU or somewhere else.

What's lost in all of this is that I'm making a purely financial argument. Most players don't take this path because they want to be loyal to their coaches, their team and their university. Why cut college short? The fact those factors don't outweigh the financial ones for Crawford is the bigger issue.
 
Well I've already said several times why I think it is a bad decision, so why don't you give me the counter argument?

Manhasset took care of that above. The ball is in your court.
 
I guess your argument is that eventually Crawford will stop playing basketball and need to find a job. Having a Wake degree will help him with that.

The counter argument is that Crawford is good enough to have a decent career professionally. He'll be paid a tax-free 6-figure salary immediately with most of his expenses covered by the team. At the point when he stops playing basketball and wants to have a second career, it's unlikely that the Wake degree from 2019 will do much. If that career involves basketball his "work experience" is better. And if he wants to go back and get his degree, he can do that at WFU or somewhere else.

What's lost in all of this is that I'm making a purely financial argument. Most players don't take this path because they want to be loyal to their coaches, their team and their university. Why cut college short? The fact those factors don't outweigh the financial ones for Crawford is the bigger issue.

Overseas income is not tax free.
 
people severely over-estimating a wake bachelor's degree WRT to mid-tier collegiate athletes post sport career
 
As is obvious by my posts on this subject in the past, I fully did not expect Moore or Crawford to stay in the draft, or better defined, choose to go play in Eastern Europe rather than obtain their degree and finish their college career with their teammates. Regardless of whether Crawford, Moore, Woods, and Mitchell are bad apples or not (I highly doubt all of them are irredeemable jerks), it is the staff's responsibility to recruit, develop, and keep our players until they graduate or until they find a good employment choice. Moore and Crawford both made bad decision for themselves and for the program (I know some would argue against that, but that is my opinion). I think we had a pretty good thing going talent wise heading into this year.

Crawford
Woods
Brown
Hoard
Moore

Sarr
Chill
Mucius
Wright
Melo
Lewis
Okeke
Washington

But with the attrition it is clear we are going to struggle, and again that ultimately is on Manning. On the bright side (lol) we should have plenty of minutes to offer our 2019 recruiting class. This is pretty much the worse case scenario for our off-season it has come to fruition. Hoard, Mucius, and Brown are going to be great players (Hoard is likely a pro). Sucks that the staff was not able to create an environment that was conducive to players finishing their degrees and their playing career in the black and gold. Criticize Skip for a lot of his defensive coaching deficiencies, or any number of basketball faults, but the players absolutely loved the guy and would have thrown themselves in front of a train for him. There is addition by subtraction (1-2 guys can be a benefit), but the departures or Moore and Crawford cannot be anything but troubling for a Wake fan.
 
Overseas income is not tax free.

I believe the contracts are typically structured so that the named figure is net of taxes....so getting $100K/year in Euro ball probably means you're taking home $100K and the team is paying your taxes
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Overseas income is not tax free.

European teams typically pay the income tax, so your earnings are tax free. That said, one would assume that the salaries would be higher if the players paid their taxes themselves. Either way, it's technically "tax free" in that the contracted pay amount is exactly what the player nets. Plus, your living expenses, car, etc are often covered, so the contracts are worth quite a bit more than the salaried amount.
 
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I guess your argument is that eventually Crawford will stop playing basketball and need to find a job. Having a Wake degree will help him with that.

The counter argument is that Crawford is good enough to have a decent career professionally. He'll be paid a tax-free 6-figure salary immediately with most of his expenses covered by the team. At the point when he stops playing basketball and wants to have a second career, it's unlikely that the Wake degree from 2019 will do much. If that career involves basketball his "work experience" is better. And if he wants to go back and get his degree, he can do that at WFU or somewhere else.

What's lost in all of this is that I'm making a purely financial argument. Most players don't take this path because they want to be loyal to their coaches, their team and their university. Why cut college short? The fact those factors don't outweigh the financial ones for Crawford is the bigger issue.

This is not an accurate picture what Crawford's or Moore's overseas career will look like. Teams don't always cover 'almost all expenses', there is no guarantee that he will make 6 figures, and it most definitely is not tax free. In fact it is double taxed (even if the team pays for the taxes, they are just hiding the cost to him...If they were going to pay him $100,000 they will instead pay him $70,000 and 'pay' his taxes). Taxed in the country of earning, and then if he tries to bring the money back to the states (which I assume would be the plan) it is taxed again. Finishing what he started and earning his degree would be infinitely more valuable than the choice he made. It was short sighted and the large odds are that this will cost him a lot of money in the long run. Which is why he REALLY must despise Manning to do this in my opinion. Same thing with Moore.
 
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I for one am glad Crawford is gone. Let us not forget all of the woeful WOEFUL decisions of this past year(s): stupid turnovers, flexing while your team is down 20, just general immaturity. Imagine the impact he had on the locker room. Yes yes I know, we will miss his scoring, etc but I'm glad this team has a fresh start. We'll be crazy young but it is what it is. Losing Moore's defense and rebounding was more impactful in my opinion. We'll lose a lot of games this year probably but at least our starting five won't quit on games like Crawford or Woods were prone to do.
 
I guess your argument is that eventually Crawford will stop playing basketball and need to find a job. Having a Wake degree will help him with that. That is not my only argument. I also believe staying another year would improve his earning potential on the basketball front - and that the resulting improvement in his salary would outweigh the advantage of starting to make money a year earlier. We will never know which argument is correct there but I think my position is credible - especially given his relative 'down' year last year.

The counter argument is that Crawford is good enough to have a decent career professionally. He'll be paid a tax-free 6-figure salary immediately with most of his expenses covered by the team. I'm not so sure this is true. Definitely not tax free and no certainty that it will be 6 figures. Another year at Wake Forest with more talent, more time to establish his name, and more free coaching, weight-training, etc. would improve his chances at all of this. At the point when he stops playing basketball and wants to have a second career, it's unlikely that the Wake degree from 2019 will do much. This simply makes no sense. A degree from any college, especially a prestigious school like Wake Forest, immensely improves anyone's earning potential. There simply is no credible argument that it doesn't. Even if he wants to get into coaching, schools typically require coaches to have degrees - at least head coaches at major schools. By not having one, all you do is close doors that could otherwise be open to you. If that career involves basketball his "work experience" is better. And if he wants to go back and get his degree, he can do that at WFU or somewhere else. Sure, you can always go back. But then you are likely paying your own way and doing it without all of the advantages he has now - the structure of study halls, the help of tutors, etc. - and he will be older, perhaps married, with kids, a job, responsibilities, etc. Anyone who has gone back to school later (like me) will tell you it is much, much easier to do it when you are young and free - especially as a scholarship athlete with all the built-in advantages.

What's lost in all of this is that I'm making a purely financial argument. Most players don't take this path because they want to be loyal to their coaches, their team and their university. Why cut college short? The fact those factors don't outweigh the financial ones for Crawford is the bigger issue. I give no weight whatsoever to loyalty - there is none in this industry. I am also making a financial argument - a long-term one versus the short-term one you are making. Every statistical model you can run would show his long-term earning as greater if he stays another year, playing and finishing his degree, versus leaving now. The only exception would be if he were going to be drafted - which he is not.
 
I feel like this is actually a good thing... I know i am in the minority with this thinking. I even said during this past season that we need addition by subtraction. I wasn't thinking of Moore leaving, though! Losing Moore really hurts, but BCs decision will actually make us better, IMO.
 
We are approaching a whole decade of suckiness. It's difficult to fathom how Wellman is still permitted to have control at this point.

In fairness, things are in pretty good shape other than our flagship basketball program. And I'm no Wellman fan.
 
I feel like this is actually a good thing... I know i am in the minority with this thinking. I even said during this past season that we need addition by subtraction. I wasn't thinking of Moore leaving, though! Losing Moore really hurts, but BCs decision will actually make us better, IMO.

Despite Crawford's clear court stupidity, he would have been our best guard, and arguably our best player this year. It is a pretty large stretch to say we are better without him. I guess you could make the argument that he was toxic to the team, but we have no validation of that for sure, and so that is a fools argument. He was a good talent, and when he played his game he made us a whole lot better. We will miss him on the court.
 
This is not an accurate picture what Crawford's or Moore's overseas career will look like. Teams don't cover 'almost all expenses', there is no guarantee that he will make 6 figures, and it most definitely is not tax free. In fact it is double taxed. Taxed in the country of earning, and then if he tries to bring the money back to the states (which I assume would be the plan) it is taxed again. Finishing what he started and earning his degree would be infinitely more valuable than the choice he made. It was short sighted and the large odds are that this will cost him a lot of money in the long run. Which is why he REALLY must despise Manning to do this in my opinion. Same thing with Moore.

Attributing this to a hatred of their coach (without any factual basis) rather than literally any other reason why a college athlete may forego eligibility to become a pro athlete seems pretty wild to me
 
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