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Doral Moore joining Washington Wizards summer league team

Chandler Hutchinson, from Boise State, was also a senior taken in the first round this year. He blew up his junior year.

Someone suggested earlier that players don't greatly improve their draft stock by staying in school, which is really incorrect. Jerome Robinson went from a 3 star with minimal draft prospects to the lottery after his junior year. Moe Wagner returned to school and went in the first round. And these are just examples from this year, off the top of my head.

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You are also overestimating the impact a good year next year would have on their chances of making money playing basketball.

Until the NCAA changes their rules, I would advise any player with professional aspirations to stay 2 years at most.

Have you seen some of the decisions NBA GMs have made in the past? You must have confidence in that group that might be overestimated.

I agree with the 2 year comment. Strangely enough, I think both Moore and Crawford going pro after their sophomore year would have made more sense than after their junior years.

But in the end, it was their decision and their lives. The system needs some work to allow marginal draftees to return immediately if they choose.
 
In the past 5-10 years? Who?

Chandler Hutchinson, from Boise State, was also a senior taken in the first round this year. He blew up his junior year.

Someone suggested earlier that players don't greatly improve their draft stock by staying in school, which is really incorrect. Jerome Robinson went from a 3 star with minimal draft prospects to the lottery after his junior year. Moe Wagner returned to school and went in the first round. And these are just examples from this year, off the top of my head.

It was me who suggested that they often can improve their draft stock. Naturally, RC disagreed. These are the examples I had in mind, just from this year - I don't think Bridges was anywhere near a lottery pick after his sophomore year at Nova, either.

A random Manning-coached player I thought of was Jeff Withey at Kansas - dude was an absolute nobody until his junior year (after the Morris twins graduated and he improved greatly). Came back for his senior year, had a solid season, and ended up a high second round draft pick, despite obvious limitations. He's had 5 years in the league already, albeit very little time last year. Pretty easy to compare him to Doral.
 
I disagree with the first point. If Craw improved on his soph year as a senior, he could have had a good shot at being drafted after next year. If Doral improved again, he'd likely get drafted next year as well. This was the worst year for a marginal big to enter the draft in the past decade. This was loaded with bigs.

Each would have had a better chance next year and if they improved, each would have had a better chance to enter Euro ball at a higher level.

As to the last point about advice, none of us know who was in their ears. It's pretty obvious that they listened to people other than our staff.

Just wrong. Crawford is done improving at Wake Forest. He might have had a better season next year but he's not getting any better. Moore has a garbage game and a slow motor and that's all he will ever have to offer to an NBA team, even if he stays at Wake another five years.
 
It was me who suggested that they often can improve their draft stock. Naturally, RC disagreed. These are the examples I had in mind, just from this year - I don't think Bridges was anywhere near a lottery pick after his sophomore year at Nova, either.

A random Manning-coached player I thought of was Jeff Withey at Kansas - dude was an absolute nobody until his junior year (after the Morris twins graduated and he improved greatly). Came back for his senior year, had a solid season, and ended up a high second round draft pick, despite obvious limitations. He's had 5 years in the league already, albeit very little time last year. Pretty easy to compare him to Doral.

It's an absurd claim. A quick review of any recent NBA draft will show at least 5-10 players that improved their draft position by returning for their junior and/or senior years.
 
It was me who suggested that they often can improve their draft stock. Naturally, RC disagreed. These are the examples I had in mind, just from this year - I don't think Bridges was anywhere near a lottery pick after his sophomore year at Nova, either.

A random Manning-coached player I thought of was Jeff Withey at Kansas - dude was an absolute nobody until his junior year (after the Morris twins graduated and he improved greatly). Came back for his senior year, had a solid season, and ended up a high second round draft pick, despite obvious limitations. He's had 5 years in the league already, albeit very little time last year. Pretty easy to compare him to Doral.

Jerome was already projected as a 2018 second round pick by the end of his sophomore year. Crawford and Moore have never been rated that highly.

Playing at Boise State is essentially the same as playing in Europe from an exposure standpoint so not sure that one really helps your case.

Obviously there are dudes that get drafted after their junior or senior years that wouldn’t have after their freshman or sophomore years. There are far more Codis, Devins, McKies, Bryants, and Dorals out there than there are Chandler Hutchinsons.
 
In the past 5-10 years? Who?

Jerome was already projected as a 2018 second round pick by the end of his sophomore year. Crawford and Moore have never been rated that highly.

Playing at Boise State is essentially the same as playing in Europe from an exposure standpoint so not sure that one really helps your case.

Obviously there are dudes that get drafted after their junior or senior years that wouldn’t have after their freshman or sophomore years. There are far more Codis, Devins, McKies, Bryants, and Dorals out there than there are Chandler Hutchinsons.

You asked me to name one/some over the past 5-10 years. Obviously you did not think there were many. There are several every single year.

You were wrong. As usual.
 
It was me who suggested that they often can improve their draft stock. Naturally, RC disagreed.

It's an absurd claim. A quick review of any recent NBA draft will show at least 5-10 players that improved their draft position by returning for their junior and/or senior years.

Lol.

5-10 out of hundreds. Absurd indeed.
 
You asked me to name one/some over the past 5-10 years. Obviously you did not think there were many. There are several every single year.

You were wrong. As usual.

I was just curious to see if you would actually go through with the argument. I thought the bait was a little obvious.

I will say that given the amount of guaranteed money for a first round pick it’s probably worth running an expected value calculation even for a small chance of jumping up based off your junior or senior year. But as I mentioned this year’s examples are poor comps for Crawford and Doral
 
Moore and Crawford might have improved their draft stock dramatically and still not gotten drafted. That's the level of player we're talking about here.
 
Lol.

5-10 out of hundreds. Absurd indeed.

Exactly. There are over thousand senior NCAA division 1 basketball players each year, and no more than 2 seniors have been first round picks in the last two drafts, but some people think that both Moore and Crawford could've parlayed next season into an NBA future? Really?

The NBA drafts for potential. If NBA scouts felt that either Moore or Crawford had NBA potential they would've been at least invited to the combine. Crawford can't even get a summer league invite (CMM has one); yet, some here are clinging to the belief that a 4th year at WF would've unlocked their NBA potential?

Neither Crawford nor Moore left because they expected to head to NBA (this year or next). They just didn't want another year of college.
 
Exactly. There are over thousand senior NCAA division 1 basketball players each year, and no more than 2 seniors have been first round picks in the last two drafts, but some people think that both Moore and Crawford could've parlayed next season into an NBA future? Really?

The NBA drafts for potential. If NBA scouts felt that either Moore or Crawford had NBA potential they would've been at least invited to the combine. Crawford can't even get a summer league invite (CMM has one); yet, some here are clinging to the belief that a 4th year at WF would've unlocked their NBA potential?

Neither Crawford nor Moore left because they expected to head to NBA (this year or next). They just didn't want another year of college.

According to Wake Basketball Twitter this morning Crawford made a summer team roster. Can’t remember which one.
 
To clarify my position, I'm not arguing that Crawford or Moore would have been drafted after another year at Wake. I don't think they would have been. RC asked for examples of players that improved their stock after returning for their junior and/or senior year, and there are plenty.

CMM is a good comparison for Crawford. CMM could have gone pro after his junior year, but he would not have been drafted. He returned for his senior season, gave himself another year to try to improve his draft stock (it didn't happen), but he got the all-important degree. This is key, because a lot of basketball players end up either coaching and/or teaching when their playing days are done. CMM won't have to spend a year or two finishing his degree and can go right into coaching, if he wants, and he'll continue making money, instead of spending it.
 
To clarify my position, I'm not arguing that Crawford or Moore would have been drafted after another year at Wake. I don't think they would have been. RC asked for examples of players that improved their stock after returning for their junior and/or senior year, and there are plenty.

CMM is a good comparison for Crawford. CMM could have gone pro after his junior year, but he would not have been drafted. He returned for his senior season, gave himself another year to try to improve his draft stock (it didn't happen), but he got the all-important degree. This is key, because a lot of basketball players end up either coaching and/or teaching when their playing days are done. CMM won't have to spend a year or two finishing his degree and can go right into coaching, if he wants, and he'll continue making money, instead of spending it.

I can’t get over <5% equaling plenty.

Also as someone mentioned, apparently guys can come back to wake in the offseason and get their degree for free.
 
Exactly. There are over thousand senior NCAA division 1 basketball players each year, and no more than 2 seniors have been first round picks in the last two drafts, but some people think that both Moore and Crawford could've parlayed next season into an NBA future? Really?

The NBA drafts for potential. If NBA scouts felt that either Moore or Crawford had NBA potential they would've been at least invited to the combine. Crawford can't even get a summer league invite (CMM has one); yet, some here are clinging to the belief that a 4th year at WF would've unlocked their NBA potential?

Neither Crawford nor Moore left because they expected to head to NBA (this year or next). They just didn't want another year of college.

Mikal Bridges was also a 4th year junior. 30% of the 2nd Round were juniors (9 out of 30)

There were more seniors drafted in the 2nd Round than any other class.
 
I can’t get over <5% equaling plenty.

Also as someone mentioned, apparently guys can come back to wake in the offseason and get their degree for free.

All P5 schools, including Wake, are offering more of these "lifetime" scholarships, but they are not offered to all athletes and they have a fair number of requirements (such as leaving in good academic standing). They sound great, but in practice they are limited.
 
Just wrong. Crawford is done improving at Wake Forest. He might have had a better season next year but he's not getting any better. Moore has a garbage game and a slow motor and that's all he will ever have to offer to an NBA team, even if he stays at Wake another five years.

correct
 
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