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Doral Moore joining Washington Wizards summer league team

All P5 schools, including Wake, are offering more of these "lifetime" scholarships, but they are not offered to all athletes and they have a fair number of requirements (such as leaving in good academic standing). They sound great, but in practice they are limited.

Good to know. I was honestly surprised the NCAA let schools do that.
 
While I agree with the many that Bryant had very limited upside especially if he felt the talent around him wasn't sufficient or too young to put himself in a position to show better as a PG, BUT DM just flat out blew what could have been some big time upside both on the court and in the pocket.

Bryant was 16 pts., 5 assists, 4 boards in '16/'17 and then last year 17/5/3 so clearly flatlining as a player and would largely be depending on Hoard being a big time stud and others stepping up to have any real improvement, but DM went from a 3 point/2 board per game stat line to 11/9 over one year! With continued conditioning and under the tutelage of DM whose one certain talent is improving big men play I have no clue why you wouldn't roll the dice and think he couldn't get to 15/10+ with another year of playing under DM and showing more on the D side as well???!!! I think the big man cost him some serious coin, but only time will tell. I do think Doral got some pretty bad advice as JC showed what a big year could earn you if stay the course and work at it.
 
Moore and Crawford are both going to make > $0 this season against better competition (both in practice and during games) with no limits on their practice time or other commitments. Hard to see how that’s an L for them.

Improving their draft stock by competing in the ACC and Moore getting to definitely improve under Coach Manning would have been much better for him. Just plain & simple bad info gotten for them both in leaving early. A lot of cases it is great and I am a big proponent of doing that when it is the right time--Jesse Bates, John Collins & even Jon Abbate since he was going out on top as a player and had nothing to improve on [plus not going to grow or get faster, etc]. But for Craw & Doral, they were not on anybody's lists of even being in the Top 100. Not to mention counting foreign players coming in, there are only 60 spots. The gamble didn't pay off, plain & simple. So unless they just hated school and were flunking out anyway--should have stayed and toughed it out.
 
Improving their draft stock by competing in the ACC and Moore getting to definitely improve under Coach Manning would have been much better for him. Just plain & simple bad info gotten for them both in leaving early. A lot of cases it is great and I am a big proponent of doing that when it is the right time--Jesse Bates, John Collins & even Jon Abbate since he was going out on top as a player and had nothing to improve on [plus not going to grow or get faster, etc]. But for Craw & Doral, they were not on anybody's lists of even being in the Top 100. Not to mention counting foreign players coming in, there are only 60 spots. The gamble didn't pay off, plain & simple. So unless they just hated school and were flunking out anyway--should have stayed and toughed it out.

ACC competition is inferior to the competition they will face this summer and next year. The point about Moore’s development is valid, though I’m sure Manning has advised him (and will continue to do so) on what he needs to do next to maximize his chances to develop.
 
While I agree with the many that Bryant had very limited upside especially if he felt the talent around him wasn't sufficient or too young to put himself in a position to show better as a PG, BUT DM just flat out blew what could have been some big time upside both on the court and in the pocket.

Bryant was 16 pts., 5 assists, 4 boards in '16/'17 and then last year 17/5/3 so clearly flatlining as a player and would largely be depending on Hoard being a big time stud and others stepping up to have any real improvement, but DM went from a 3 point/2 board per game stat line to 11/9 over one year! With continued conditioning and under the tutelage of DM whose one certain talent is improving big men play I have no clue why you wouldn't roll the dice and think he couldn't get to 15/10+ with another year of playing under DM and showing more on the D side as well???!!! I think the big man cost him some serious coin, but only time will tell. I do think Doral got some pretty bad advice as JC showed what a big year could earn you if stay the course and work at it.


This^^^
 
Mikal Bridges was also a 4th year junior. 30% of the 2nd Round were juniors (9 out of 30)

There were more seniors drafted in the 2nd Round than any other class.

So, you are counting on the remote chance (9 seniors were 2nd round picks in the 2018 draft out of over 1000 senior D-1 basketball players) that some NBA team may take a flyer on Moore and Crawford as second round picks next year (with no guaranteed contract and at best for most, a trip to the G League)?

BTW, here are just some of the seniors that did not get drafted:

Bonzie Colson ND All-American; ACC Pre-season POY
Rob Gray Houston Senior All-American Team; All AAC Conference; almost singled-handedly beat Michigan (23 points and 10 boards) in NCAAs
Gary Clark Cincy AAC POY; AAC Tourney POY
Chris Chiozza Florida - All-time assist leader in Florida history; All SEC first team; ALL SEC defensive team
Trevon Blueitt Xavier - All American; 3 time 1st team all Big East
Kelan Martin Butler - 2 time All Big East; 2nd all-time leading scorer in Butler in history
Jock Landale St. Mary's - All American; WCC POY; 2 time first team all-WCC
Joel Berry UNC - Final Four MVP, 1st team all-ACC; 3rd team All-American
Keenan Evans Texas Tech All-America; All Big 12;

Even if Moore and/or Crawford came back and had great senior years (which is far from a given), there is no guarantee that they would even have been 2nd round picks next year.
 
ACC competition is inferior to the competition they will face this summer and next year. The point about Moore’s development is valid, though I’m sure Manning has advised him (and will continue to do so) on what he needs to do next to maximize his chances to develop.

So playing in summer league with mostly UFA's is better competition than playing Duke and their multitude of first round picks?
 
In the past 5-10 years? Who?

So, you are counting on the remote chance (9 seniors were 2nd round picks in the 2018 draft out of over 1000 senior D-1 basketball players) that some NBA team may take a flyer on Moore and Crawford as second round picks next year (with no guaranteed contract and at best for most, a trip to the G League)?

BTW, here are just some of the seniors that did not get drafted:

Bonzie Colson ND All-American; ACC Pre-season POY
Rob Gray Houston Senior All-American Team; All AAC Conference; almost singled-handedly beat Michigan (23 points and 10 boards) in NCAAs
Gary Clark Cincy AAC POY; AAC Tourney POY
Chris Chiozza Florida - All-time assist leader in Florida history; All SEC first team; ALL SEC defensive team
Trevon Blueitt Xavier - All American; 3 time 1st team all Big East
Kelan Martin Butler - 2 time All Big East; 2nd all-time leading scorer in Butler in history
Jock Landale St. Mary's - All American; WCC POY; 2 time first team all-WCC
Joel Berry UNC - Final Four MVP, 1st team all-ACC; 3rd team All-American
Keenan Evans Texas Tech All-America; All Big 12;

Even if Moore and/or Crawford came back and had great senior years (which is far from a given), there is no guarantee that they would even have been 2nd round picks next year.

None of those players are 7'1". I agree that the odds Crawford showed additional ability/potential to NBA GMs was quite low, but think Doral could have been a fringe 1st/early 2nd rounder with continued progression (mostly development of a shot).
 
Atlanta Hawks summer league team, which got destroyed in Salt Lake City features:

2018 consensus all-American Trae Young
2017 NCAAT all-region and 17mpg NBA shooting guard Tyler Dorsey
2018 national champion and all-region Omari Spellman
John Collins
2018 consensus all-American and WCC player of the year Jock Landale

A-10 player of the year Jaylen Adams
G-league starter Jaylen Morris
Indiana 4 year starter Robert Johnson

Zach Leday, who put up 11/7 with 2 blocks in 32 minutes ina win against Duke, can’t get minutes.
 
None of those players are 7'1". I agree that the odds Crawford showed additional ability/potential to NBA GMs was quite low, but think Doral could have been a fringe 1st/early 2nd rounder with continued progression (mostly development of a shot).

Honest question, do you watch the NBA? Another year of college isn’t going to help him switch onto wing players in the NBA. His ceiling is a poor man’s Rudy Gobert and I’m not sure there is a market for that
 
So, you are counting on the remote chance (9 seniors were 2nd round picks in the 2018 draft out of over 1000 senior D-1 basketball players) that some NBA team may take a flyer on Moore and Crawford as second round picks next year (with no guaranteed contract and at best for most, a trip to the G League)?

BTW, here are just some of the seniors that did not get drafted:

Bonzie Colson ND All-American; ACC Pre-season POY
Rob Gray Houston Senior All-American Team; All AAC Conference; almost singled-handedly beat Michigan (23 points and 10 boards) in NCAAs
Gary Clark Cincy AAC POY; AAC Tourney POY
Chris Chiozza Florida - All-time assist leader in Florida history; All SEC first team; ALL SEC defensive team
Trevon Blueitt Xavier - All American; 3 time 1st team all Big East
Kelan Martin Butler - 2 time All Big East; 2nd all-time leading scorer in Butler in history
Jock Landale St. Mary's - All American; WCC POY; 2 time first team all-WCC
Joel Berry UNC - Final Four MVP, 1st team all-ACC; 3rd team All-American
Keenan Evans Texas Tech All-America; All Big 12;

Even if Moore and/or Crawford came back and had great senior years (which is far from a given), there is no guarantee that they would even have been 2nd round picks next year.

No one said anything about a guarantee. Using raw numbers to create anything. Saying there are X number players is ridiculous.

Bonzie Colson is a 6'5 PF who had a major injury.

Chiozza is maybe 6'0, 175. He averaged 6 ppg fewer than Craw and never shot as high as 35% on threes.

Gary Clark is an undersized PF. I wish we would have gotten him out of HS, but he doesn't have a position in the NBA.

joel Berry is an undersized PG who isn't a great shooter, had many fewer assists than Craw and a much worse A/TO number for each of his four years.
 
In the past 5-10 years? Who?

Honest question, do you watch the NBA? Another year of college isn’t going to help him switch onto wing players in the NBA. His ceiling is a poor man’s Rudy Gobert and I’m not sure there is a market for that

Yes. There will always be a market for 7 footers who are good at rebounding/throwing down lobs. Certailny not what it used to be, sure, but it's always going to be there.
 
No one said anything about a guarantee. Using raw numbers to create anything. Saying there are X number players is ridiculous.

Bonzie Colson is a 6'5 PF who had a major injury.

Chiozza is maybe 6'0, 175. He averaged 6 ppg fewer than Craw and never shot as high as 35% on threes.

Gary Clark is an undersized PF. I wish we would have gotten him out of HS, but he doesn't have a position in the NBA.

joel Berry is an undersized PG who isn't a great shooter, had many fewer assists than Craw and a much worse A/TO number for each of his four years.

Crawford is an undersized combo guard with an erratic shot, poor defender, low basketball IQ and does not hustle.

Moore is a slow, back to the basket center (a style no longer useful in the NBA) that cannot defend away from the basket and can't shoot beyond 10 feet.

Another year in college was not going to get either of them in the NBA. To play in the NBA, you have to at least one exceptional attribute (dead eye shooter, exceptional defender, impeccable sense of the floor). We have watched Moore and Crawford play 100 games in college, and they are not NBA players. No one disputed that heading into this draft; amazes me that anyone thinks that after 3 years of college that either one would've been transformed into an NBA prospect in year 4. The NBA pays scouts a lot of money to find a glimmer of NBA talent in players that did not always shine college. No one in the NBA saw enough promise in either to get a combine invite, but the light was going to magically turn on in year 4 had they returned?
 
Yes. There will always be a market for 7 footers who are good at rebounding/throwing down lobs. Certailny not what it used to be, sure, but it's always going to be there.

It’s basically just the Jazz. No other team plays a defensive style that Doral can be a part of. He’s just not agile enough to play in the NBA. I hope I’m wrong but I just don’t see it.
 
Crawford is an undersized combo guard with an erratic shot, poor defender, low basketball IQ and does not hustle.

Moore is a slow, back to the basket center (a style no longer useful in the NBA) that cannot defend away from the basket and can't shoot beyond 10 feet.

Another year in college was not going to get either of them in the NBA. To play in the NBA, you have to at least one exceptional attribute (dead eye shooter, exceptional defender, impeccable sense of the floor). We have watched Moore and Crawford play 100 games in college, and they are not NBA players. No one disputed that heading into this draft; amazes me that anyone thinks that after 3 years of college that either one would've been transformed into an NBA prospect in year 4. The NBA pays scouts a lot of money to find a glimmer of NBA talent in players that did not always shine college. No one in the NBA saw enough promise in either to get a combine invite, but the light was going to magically turn on in year 4 had they returned?

It's nothing magical. Before the season NBADRAFT.net and a couple of others projected Craw as a late 1st Round pick or early 2nd Round in 19. He had a bad year. There's no way around that, but he has talent. Even in a bad year he was #6 in assists and ,4 steals/game from leading the league. He's a PG not a combo guard.

This year would be the first one that has talent at every position. That would likely make his play better.

Most teams keep a shotblocker. With marginal improvement, Doral could have had a real shot after next year.
 
Wiz getting killed by Cavs in summer league. No Doral sighting so far. I don't think he has played his first minute of pro ball as yet.
 
I missed his pro debut minute. 1 rebound, 1 block, zeros for everything else.
 
All P5 schools, including Wake, are offering more of these "lifetime" scholarships, but they are not offered to all athletes and they have a fair number of requirements (such as leaving in good academic standing). They sound great, but in practice they are limited.

You seriously want to claim that you don't work in an athletic department?

What casual fan knows that information? Come on...
 
Well that's a productive minute.
 
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