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NYC: Death of a Once Great City

I mean property/land/whatever is the oldest source of wealth in the world, much less the US - thats a pretty drastic change.

How did the United States acquire all this land that is the oldest source of wealth? And how did it build its wealth?

It's wild that in 2018, when Donald Trump is fucking president and we have the highest incarceration rate in the world, and the highest inequality in 100 years, and we just had a real estate crash and learned what lessons from it?, and Barney Frank is on the board of a bank, and Geitner works for a payday loan scam, and corporations are making millions of dollars off the incarceration of immigrant children, that people don't have more skepticism of American capitalism.

#joindsa
 
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We are at the point where questioning capitalism is like questioning the air we breathe.


(And yes, we should question the air we breathe. Because of capitalism.)
 
Ohhhhhhhh so YOU think it's bad for society. Well I guess we should all just ask you whenever we come to these conundrums. Real Property is a commodity, just like anything else. It has value and can be bought and sold.


Humans are competitive. A society that rewards the lazy and stupid with the same ration as the hardworking and smart does not work. That was called communism, remember?

There is no scenario in which you are going to disenfranchise the landowners of Manhattan, or any other big city for that matter, so just stop. Dnt worry tho I think rent is pretty stable on Peters Creek.

I already thought you were an asshole, now at least I know you have the politics to match the personality. Alumni like you make me regret my choice to attend Wake, much more than my student loans.
 
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You can't just increase the rent in a rent stabilized apartment and drive tenants out.

First, there are a lot of different forms of rent stabilization so speaking about rent control/stabilization/regulation like it’s a single policy or set of policies is inaccurate.

Second, yes they can. Even most of the strongest forms of rent control typically have what is known as a vacancy decontrol. This means that when a tenant leaves, the landlord can raise rents to market, whatever that may be. In places with competitive rental markets, there are a lot of legal ways (read: loopholes) that landlords can use to evict rent controlled tenants. No-fault evictions are common in California, for instance.

That said, few landlords actually lose money in rent controlled jurisdictions. Most rent control ordinances have what is known as a fair return provision. If, for instance, a landlord isn’t making a fair return based on whatever a jurisdiction uses to measure this (e.g., % increase in CPI), then the landlord can apply to have the city subsidize their rent. Even in some of the most restrictive rent control regimes (e.g., NJ, CA, NYC), few landlords historically apply for, let alone win these concessions from local governments. That’s on top of the already massive subsidies that landlords of all sizes receive from a lot of different government programs and tax breaks.

Basically, every standard case against rent control is empirically questionable, if not outright false, justifiable based on pop-economic commonsense rather than evidence. Cities are becoming increasingly unaffordable, homeless populations are increasing and homeownership has gone from a staple of working and middle class urban life to an impossibility in under a generation. At some point (and I’d argue at this point), the question of how much landlords should profit is not just a moral matter, but a political one, too.
 
Where is this evidence that humans are competitive? Sure competitive humans in competitive societies who have to compete to survive are competitive. But that’s not a consistent human trait across time.

evolutionary psychology is such pseudo-scientific trash
 
Those were some well thought out posts. Not exactly correct, but lots of fun legal stuff.

Home ownership is easily available - why do we continue to keep putting one of the most expensive cities in the world into a vacuum? Buy a place in queens or Brooklyn, you can. Or buy a place in Jersey and commute in If you can't afford an NYC mortgage.

Also, legally in nyc, a building has to show "improvements" to justify rent increase for existing tenants (your point is valid for vacated apartments). If you want to argue over what an improvement is, that's fine and I agree, but you can't just let a building fall into disrepair and continue to jack up rates.
 
evolutionary psychology is such pseudo-scientific trash
Why do you say that? Because libertarian mouth breathing morons don't understand that evolutionary competitiveness isn't referring to a fucking competitive state of mind? Don't let political idiocy color your opinion of a legitimate field.
 
Those were some well thought out posts. Not exactly correct, but lots of fun legal stuff.

Home ownership is easily available - why do we continue to keep putting one of the most expensive cities in the world into a vacuum? Buy a place in queens or Brooklyn, you can. Or buy a place in Jersey and commute in If you can't afford an NYC mortgage.

Also, legally in nyc, a building has to show "improvements" to justify rent increase for existing tenants (your point is valid for vacated apartments). If you want to argue over what an improvement is, that's fine and I agree, but you can't just let a building fall into disrepair and continue to jack up rates.

What isn’t correct?

Is homeownership easily available in any of the most popular American cities? Relative to wages, my hunch is that the answer is no. That wasn’t always the case. Replace NY with Los Angeles, Chicago, Milwaukee, or even Durham and you’ll see similar trends.

What has changed so drastically over the last 20-30 years in American cities that justifies the banishment of the poor and middle classes to housing precarity within city limits? (Crime rates have been going down since the 70s, before somebody trots that classic out.) Cities have never historically been enclaves of the rich, but they are rapidly becoming this way.

Improvements are relative. My sense is that, in LA, it’s almost impossible to not earn your rent increase. I haven’t lived in NY in five years, but that was the case in NY, too.
 
Those were some well thought out posts. Not exactly correct, but lots of fun legal stuff.

Home ownership is easily available - why do we continue to keep putting one of the most expensive cities in the world into a vacuum? Buy a place in queens or Brooklyn, you can. Or buy a place in Jersey and commute in If you can't afford an NYC mortgage.

Also, legally in nyc, a building has to show "improvements" to justify rent increase for existing tenants (your point is valid for vacated apartments). If you want to argue over what an improvement is, that's fine and I agree, but you can't just let a building fall into disrepair and continue to jack up rates.
Speeding is illegal too. There are about a thousand different pending court cases all over the country that would prove you wrong about it not happening. Here is a full documentary episode of America Divided on that very subject with multiple examples of that very occurance.
https://youtu.be/OXIClKpf7k4
 
Speeding is illegal too. There are about a thousand different pending court cases all over the country that would prove you wrong about it not happening. Here is a full documentary episode of America Divided on that very subject with multiple examples of that very occurance.
https://youtu.be/OXIClKpf7k4

What is this nonsense? Minority Report isn't available yet, hoss, for the time being we have to rely on laws.
 
What isn’t correct?

Is homeownership easily available in any of the most popular American cities? Relative to wages, my hunch is that the answer is no. That wasn’t always the case. Replace NY with Los Angeles, Chicago, Milwaukee, or even Durham and you’ll see similar trends.

What has changed so drastically over the last 20-30 years in American cities that justifies the banishment of the poor and middle classes to housing precarity within city limits? (Crime rates have been going down since the 70s, before somebody trots that classic out.) Cities have never historically been enclaves of the rich, but they are rapidly becoming this way.

Improvements are relative. My sense is that, in LA, it’s almost impossible to not earn your rent increase. I haven’t lived in NY in five years, but that was the case in NY, too.

My kids 3rd grade teacher is 29, makes $80k per year and bought a studio condo in the upper West side. Yes, I used a specific example to answer your point, but you are wrong about city living. The problem with all these arguments is that you want your cake and eat it too. Wanna live in a cheap place in the city? You can, it's a shitty part of town, but you can do it. You want 1500 square feet, 3 bedrooms and a washer/dryer? Move to one of the other borough's.

I've lived in downtown Philly too - its the same way. Is gentrification happening and making cities more livable? Sure, it's making it more expensive - yep. But there are always places to go, and most cities that have these rapidly rising rents also have a decent enough mass transit system.
 
What is this nonsense? Minority Report isn't available yet, hoss, for the time being we have to rely on laws.
Nonsense is you saying it doesnt happen because it's illegal. It happens a lot. Believe the people it happens to, their stories are all over.
 
Nonsense is you saying it doesnt happen because it's illegal. It happens a lot. Believe the people it happens to, their stories are all over.

I mean, its like you have no idea why there are laws in any society. I'm sorry I didn't explicitly state that I don't believe everyone is altruistic and nice.
 
What isn’t correct?

Is homeownership easily available in any of the most popular American cities? Relative to wages, my hunch is that the answer is no. That wasn’t always the case. Replace NY with Los Angeles, Chicago, Milwaukee, or even Durham and you’ll see similar trends.

The median home value in Milwaukee is $113,100. The median household income is $40,218.

The median home value in Durham is $211,000. The Median household income of a Durham resident is $49,585 a year.

House ownership is certainly available in these cities.
 
The median home value in Milwaukee is $113,100. The median household income is $40,218.

The median home value in Durham is $211,000. The Median household income of a Durham resident is $49,585 a year.

House ownership is certainly available in these cities.
A housing shortage or housing crisis is almost specific in reference to low and mid-income rental property in urban centers, where lower and mid-income people (minorities) work. I don't think anyone ever questioned the ability to buy a 100k home in Durham or Milwaukee. The people being evicted from low income apartments arent usually in the market to purchase 100k homes
 
Housing inflation and rentiers profiting off it has been a thing for a long time. A couple of random thoughts about it:
1. the specific issue of "gentrification" and pushing poor people out is badly overblown. Yes, it is happening in a very few neighborhoods in a very few successful cities, but it is emphatically NOT happening in the huge majority of American cities below the megalopolis class. Journalists and social crusaders are concentrated in the cities where it is happening and those voices are magnified far beyond the actual empirical data. Kind of like how a tiny minority of our workforce (coal miners or steel workers) has somehow come to dominate discussion of American industrial policy. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-gentrification/2016/06/03/b6c80e56-1ba5-11e6-8c7b-6931e66333e7_story.html?utm_term=.41443035ed41

2. For most people in most cities in America, the issue is not "gentrification" or pushing out the poors, it is the simple fact that wage growth has stagnated for 30 years while housing cost has continued to grow, and grow much more quickly after 2000. Winner = the rentier class. https://voxeu.org/article/home-prices-1870. The huge majority of cities do not need to institute draconian policies like rent control or low income quotas on new housing. They mainly need to find a way to get developers to build more housing, especially multifamily infill, to increase the overall supply. Not that this is necessarily an easy thing to do.

3. It certainly would help if Federal, state, and local governments taxed more of the outsize profits on real estate and redistributed it to help people afford their rent, or to provide affordable health care and education to take some other pressures off poor and middle class people. Instead, real estate profits are some of the most tax-favored investments you can make. This is another example of supply-side economics failing to trickle down.

NYC is a special city with a lot of truly unique, or near-unique, issues. That's what makes it interesting.
 
You mean the sanitation workers that were required by law to live in the five boroughs until 2005?

Haha yep, those exact same ones. My father-in-law rented an apartment in Staten Island with about 10 other guys since the 70s that I don't think he ever once stepped foot in, while he was enjoying his 4,000 sq foot house with swimming pool in his wife's name 45 minutes away in NJ from that sweet, sweet, overinflated NYC municipal cash.
 
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