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Central & South America: Trump Wanted to Conduct a Missile Strike on Mexico

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...enezuela-the-impasse-continues-the-people-pay

"It is almost a week since 21 Venezuelans went missing when their boat sank en route to Trinidad and Tobago. They were part of a much greater outpouring of citizens; more than three million have left the country since 2015, as conditions there have become increasingly desperate under President Nicolás Maduro. As a new bout of turmoil hits Venezuela, with tear gas loosed on protesters in Caracas, the political drama quickly claimed any attention given to the case. But those lost souls should remind those watching from outside Venezuela that this is a human crisis above all...

There is no doubting the oppressive nature, the shocking incompetence and blatant kleptocracy of Mr Maduro’s rule. His government has tossed opponents into prison; brutally attacked demonstrators; and set up a new legislature to bypass the opposition-held national assembly. Dodgy elections for both that body and the presidency itself followed. Around nine in 10 Venezuelans are living in poverty and the country is enduring one of the longest runs of hyperinflation in history. Shortages of food and medicine are rife; diseases such as diphtheria are resurgent. US sanctions have only exacerbated this disastrous course. Venezuela cannot recover politically, socially or economically while Mr Maduro remains in charge. Even a tranche of Chavistas have abandoned the man Hugo Chávez picked as his successor.

But there is also no doubting that many in Venezuela are fearful of the right, and have vivid and painful memories of the US backing military seizures of power in Latin America – even if they recognise the hypocrisy of an authoritarian portraying himself as a second Salvador Allende..."
 
Here's a hint for you MHB. If you have united every political side, every age group, every geographic group, all economic sides against you, it may be a wise concept to look in the mirror.

Irony ?
 
I think the US should just stay out of it. Why back any specific horse? Why do anything other than condemn the existing regime for their human rights' abuses and let sanctions continue to work?
 
Does MHB have the least sense of humor of any poster? Even other posters who get piled on make tons of jokes, but this guy is all business all the time.
 
This is all correct simultaneously.

If the standard for supporting a coop in another country, forcing a leadership change, etc., is that the current leader is a shit head, why would Venezuela be any different than any other harsh dictatorship. We should probably intervene in Nicaragua, Phillipines, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, N. Korea, Iran...where does such a policy end? We have a long and failed history of intervening in the internal politics of many countries...Iran comes to mind, Nicaragua also and the biggest most recent failure is Iraq. Every one should just pump the breaks on interventionist policies for distastefully dictatorial countries. Trump is wildly incompetent, but plenty of competent international leaders (Reagan,Kennedy, Bush, Obama) completely failed at interventions in the past, so even under the best circumstances its a high risk endeavor. That is not an expression of support for Marudo nor an abdication of power to Russia. It's an expression of caution for over zealous humanitarian intentions that have a tendency to back fire.

Because Russia is sniffing around and looking for a puppet in South America. You don't think they have already thought about coming in, helping Maduro & his family, but making things 100x worse for everyone else, thereby exacerbating the refugee crisis, thereby sending more refugees to the US, thereby creating more chaos in the 2020 election?

If you don't think Putin has already had wet dreams about all of this, you are kidding yourselves. He remains a cold war strategist and is playing 3D space chess to Trump's mini connect 4 game that came with his happy meal. He gives zero fucks about a humanitarian crisis if it's not within his own borders.

That's why we need to put strong, visible military presence in the area, before its too late, even if we dont use it, to signal that this is our backyard and that we arent fucking around. That is the only language he understands. Inaction could very well be an abdication of power to Russia.

Trump believes Putin over our own CIA though, so I have no faith that he will do the right thing.
 
Because Russia is sniffing around and looking for a puppet in South America. You don't think they have already thought about coming in, helping Maduro & his family, but making things 100x worse for everyone else, thereby exacerbating the refugee crisis, thereby sending more refugees to the US, thereby creating more chaos in the 2020 election?

If you don't think Putin has already had wet dreams about all of this, you are kidding yourselves. He remains a cold war strategist and is playing 3D space chess to Trump's mini connect 4 game that came with his happy meal. He gives zero fucks about a humanitarian crisis if it's not within his own borders.

That's why we need to put strong, visible military presence in the area, before its too late, even if we dont use it, to signal that this is our backyard and that we arent fucking around. That is the only language he understands. Inaction could very well be an abdication of power to Russia.

Trump believes Putin over our own CIA though, so I have no faith that he will do the right thing.

imperialist
 
Yeah I'm sure sending American troops to another country will end in an ultimate success. Putin will really get that we aren't fucking around this time! Just like we showed him with Iraq, Iran, Syria, and Afghanistan.
 
Because Russia is sniffing around and looking for a puppet in South America. You don't think they have already thought about coming in, helping Maduro & his family, but making things 100x worse for everyone else, thereby exacerbating the refugee crisis, thereby sending more refugees to the US, thereby creating more chaos in the 2020 election?

If you don't think Putin has already had wet dreams about all of this, you are kidding yourselves. He remains a cold war strategist and is playing 3D space chess to Trump's mini connect 4 game that came with his happy meal. He gives zero fucks about a humanitarian crisis if it's not within his own borders.

That's why we need to put strong, visible military presence in the area, before its too late, even if we dont use it, to signal that this is our backyard and that we arent fucking around. That is the only language he understands. Inaction could very well be an abdication of power to Russia.

Trump believes Putin over our own CIA though, so I have no faith that he will do the right thing.

This is why socialism always fails, warmonger.
 
total subjugation via destruction of that nations' military and infrastructure and decades of occupation and Americanization will eventually pay big dividends
 
This is why socialism always fails, warmonger.

What is the reason socialism always fails?

I'm sure we can learn a lot from a country who relies on one product for 85% of its total exports and that this is entirely comparable to every other economy regardless of how diverse or robust they may be!
 
Is there anybody except TAB who wants to do anything but talk or do nothing?
 
Because Russia is sniffing around and looking for a puppet in South America. You don't think they have already thought about coming in, helping Maduro & his family, but making things 100x worse for everyone else, thereby exacerbating the refugee crisis, thereby sending more refugees to the US, thereby creating more chaos in the 2020 election?

If you don't think Putin has already had wet dreams about all of this, you are kidding yourselves. He remains a cold war strategist and is playing 3D space chess to Trump's mini connect 4 game that came with his happy meal. He gives zero fucks about a humanitarian crisis if it's not within his own borders.

That's why we need to put strong, visible military presence in the area, before its too late, even if we dont use it, to signal that this is our backyard and that we arent fucking around. That is the only language he understands. Inaction could very well be an abdication of power to Russia.

Trump believes Putin over our own CIA though, so I have no faith that he will do the right thing.

Here we are spouting the domino theory of the 21st century. This never works. I mean you've got theory on your side, sure, but the data indicate that in a practical application your suggested actions never work.

Putin did far more damage to America with a couple $100K worth of facebook trolling than he ever will with a base of operation in Venezuela.

I feel bad for the people of Venezuela, but I predict that flexing our military muscle and installing a new un-elected leader will do more harm to Venezuela than good in the short and long run.
 
Here we are spouting the domino theory of the 21st century. This never works. I mean you've got theory on your side, sure, but the data indicate that in a practical application your suggested actions never work.

Putin did far more damage to America with a couple $100K worth of facebook trolling than he ever will with a base of operation in Venezuela.

I feel bad for the people of Venezuela, but I predict that flexing our military muscle and installing a new un-elected leader will do more harm to Venezuela than good in the short and long run.

So, are you advocating for doing nothing and let's just see how this plays out?

Does the decision to act matter if intel reveals that Russia and Cuba are essentially the only thing propping up Maduro (so that they are subverting the will of Venezuelan people) ?

No easy answers, but there could be alternative between doing nothing and a military strike resulting in the US installing a leader of its choice.
 
So, are you advocating for doing nothing and let's just see how this plays out?

Does the decision to act matter if intel reveals that Russia and Cuba are essentially the only thing propping up Maduro (so that they are subverting the will of Venezuelan people) ?

No easy answers, but there could be alternative between doing nothing and a military strike resulting in the US installing a leader of its choice.

So, what is that alternative?
 
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