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The Democratic Party Left Me Behind

It might also inform ChrisL's opinion that in many cities in the country, at least in KC, my sense is that people that have been members of past leftist movements are skeptical of the DSA as still a very center leaning org.
 
Words matter. At this point, the term "socialist" will turn off a lot of people who may agree with many of the principles.
 
I agree that words matter. That is why if you are a socialist, you should call yourself a socialist. What other word should I use?
 
I agree that words matter. That is why if you are a socialist, you should call yourself a socialist. What other word should I use?

At this point in time, the places you can win statewide elections calling yourself a "socialist" are few. You could start with the word "progressive".

Today, you can choose to be "pure" to win nothing or choose to grow incrementally until you reach your goals. Each step can be bigger than the last one.

Healthcare is a good example. You aren't going to get socialized medicine directly. You might be able to get Medicare expanded until for those over 50 or allow those over 50 to directly purchase Medicare as a policy choice. When people see how well it works, it will be much easier to expand it for everyone.
 
On this same train of thought, if ChrisL or ITC were to ever attend a DSA meeting, they would notice that there is no time spent or plans made to canvas wealthy suburbs. DSA isnt standing outside of wholefoods with clipboards.

What I said earlier about "not trying to change your mind" may have seemed aggressive, but the honest truth is that you moderate Dems aren't the target market for leftist politics. Economically and culturally, attempting to persuade you is a waste of resources. I post here as a hobby, not to win minds.
 
At this point in time, the places you can win statewide elections calling yourself a "socialist" are few. You could start with the word "progressive".

Today, you can choose to be "pure" to win nothing or choose to grow incrementally until you reach your goals. Each step can be bigger than the last one.

Healthcare is a good example. You aren't going to get socialized medicine directly. You might be able to get Medicare expanded until for those over 50 or allow those over 50 to directly purchase Medicare as a policy choice. When people see how well it works, it will be much easier to expand it for everyone.

The problem with this is that it is all made-up.
 
On this same train of thought, if ChrisL or ITC were to ever attend a DSA meeting, they would notice that there is no time spent or plans made to canvas wealthy suburbs. DSA isnt standing outside of wholefoods with clipboards.

What I said earlier about "not trying to change your mind" may have seemed aggressive, but the honest truth is that you moderate Dems aren't the target market for leftist politics. Economically and culturally, attempting to persuade you is a waste of resources. I post here as a hobby, not to win minds.

What’s your definition of “wealthy suburb?” I think you may be missing a market based on silly stereotypes.
 
What’s your definition of “wealthy suburb?” I think you may be missing a market based on silly stereotypes.
There are only 50k members nationwide, and not nearly that many people canvassing, so
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The problem with this is that it is all made-up.

No, it's a logical look at the process of how things get done. You can dream all you like, but what I posted is reality.

In theory, there are about 50,000 members in the US. That's not even a rounding error. It's irrational to expect such a tiny and fringe group to change basically every part of American life.

If it's all or nothing, you will get nothing.
 
On this same train of thought, if ChrisL or ITC were to ever attend a DSA meeting, they would notice that there is no time spent or plans made to canvas wealthy suburbs. DSA isnt standing outside of wholefoods with clipboards.

What I said earlier about "not trying to change your mind" may have seemed aggressive, but the honest truth is that you moderate Dems aren't the target market for leftist politics. Economically and culturally, attempting to persuade you is a waste of resources. I post here as a hobby, not to win minds.

Having such a dismissive attitude towards those who share some of your goals, dooms your movement to failure.
 
RJ, you are just speaking in platitudes. You can’t provide any proof that “this is the only way to get it done.”

Just look at the success of the Labour Party.

Donald Trump is president. No traditional political rules, real or imagined, exist anymore. So socialists should call themselves socialists and try to recruit people to be socialists by doing cool and radical shit. They should care about growth independently from the Democratic Party.
 
why don't you explain so we can have a conversation like adults? I don't even know Childress' politics. So, I guess I would say that in the current US overton window context, mdmh might be correctly labled "far left" but I think in a more global context, he would be more to the center of spectrum (horseshoe).

ETA: This is all still kind of making an assumption about mdmh that I haven't confirmed with him, but I have the same observation as Rchill. If you go to a DSA meeting, you are just as likely to meet communists as you might be to meet someone fresh off the Hillary train.

This. If the top of the horseshoe is at 12 o’clock and the two ends are at 5 and 7 respectively, then your Third Way Dems are at 12:30, Joe Manchin is at 2, the most Moderate Pubs in the Senate are at 2:30, the Freedom Caucus and NC GOP are at 3:45, and Steven Miller is at 4:50. On the left, Bernie is at 930 or 10. Don’t know much about DSA, but unless they are actual socialists I doubt they are any further down than 8:30 or 9.

The U.S. as a whole is a fairly conservative country when placed on the world political spectrum.
 
At this point in time, the places you can win statewide elections calling yourself a "socialist" are few. You could start with the word "progressive".

Today, you can choose to be "pure" to win nothing or choose to grow incrementally until you reach your goals. Each step can be bigger than the last one.

Healthcare is a good example. You aren't going to get socialized medicine directly. You might be able to get Medicare expanded until for those over 50 or allow those over 50 to directly purchase Medicare as a policy choice. When people see how well it works, it will be much easier to expand it for everyone.

Healthcare is actually an awful example. Medicare-for-all polls at 60% and a public option at 75%. Most Democrats in Congress have come around on Medicare for all. Democrats and Americans don’t need to ease in to socialized medicine, they just need the votes.

We are only 8 years removed from having 59 votes on both a public option and moving the Medicare age to 55. Republicans have done a great job framing the Tea Party as a grassroots backlash against that, rather than the white nationalist movement it actually was.
 
RJ, you are just speaking in platitudes. You can’t provide any proof that “this is the only way to get it done.”

Just look at the success of the Labour Party.

Donald Trump is president. No traditional political rules, real or imagined, exist anymore. So socialists should call themselves socialists and try to recruit people to be socialists by doing cool and radical shit. They should care about growth independently from the Democratic Party.

Socialists can socialist all they want, but when the biggest socialist party in America (at 43,000 fucking members) has this on their Wikipedia page:

The Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) is a multi-tendency organization of democratic socialist, left-social democratic and labor-oriented members in the United States.

The DSA sees itself as a big tent and multi-tendency organization with members expressing a wide range of socialist and anti-capitalist views.[109][110] The DSA members have views ranging from eco-socialism,[111] democratic socialism,[112] revolutionary socialism,[113] libertarian socialism[114] and communism[115] to social democracy.

Then calling yourself socialist is a political play for attention at this point.
 
Socialists can socialist all they want, but when the biggest socialist party in America (at 43,000 fucking members) has this on their Wikipedia page:



Then calling yourself socialist is a political play for attention at this point.

It's not a party

That said, the multi-tendency model's usefulness was in preventing fractures during a period when DSA functioned as a left-wing social club designed to boost the prominence of some guy I'd never heard of until 2017 (Michael Harrington). With the org today canvassing for M4A, organizing tenants, supporting candidates, and actually doing political work, the multi-tendency model is going to come under strain because there are actual stakes in its work, unlike when it just existed to give Harrington something to be in charge of.
 
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