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The Democratic Party Left Me Behind

I come back to the thread and there's a whole page of "guillotines and gulags! Oh no!" Good grief, you'd think you all had never seen hyperbole before. Anyway, back to your fawning over all 10 neocon Bush acolytes.
 
sailordeac said:
then why call it socialism, if you just want to expand the welfare state without nationalizing the means of production, transportation, finance and communication? and the only way the welfare state can work is if it is kept properly restrained by capitalism and democracy
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why indeed (only one of us has used that word). My sense is that there are very few actual socialists in the U.S. Most progressives would be social democrats with a few (though perhaps growing number) being democratic socialists.

I’m also not convinced that capitalism is necessary to prevent the excesses of Leninist systems. A decentralized, market based economy helps stabilize a democracy which in turn prevents those excesses.

There’s no prominent figure on the left arguing that we abandon democracy or a market economy. There are prominent figures on the right openly advocating for a white nationalist state.
 
DeaconSig said:
Remember that in your zeal to nail MDMH, you are siding with the Huge Gaping Twat of Hypocrisy.
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That's not a coincidence. chrisL would rather feign outrage about gulags than actually discuss the inequality thats driving people to adopt "extreme" socialist candidates. We have the highest median income, right? What are all these people so upset about?
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
That's not a coincidence. chrisL would rather feign outrage about gulags than actually discuss the inequality thats driving people to adopt "extreme" socialist candidates. We have the highest median income, right? What are all these people so upset about?
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More bullshit strawman nonsense from you. We talk about these issues on this board everyday. I just don't agree with you.
 
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ChrisL68 said:
I suspect by then the left will have made some incremental gains. we should have universal health coverage.
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RChildress107 said:
Which is all the left in this country have been fighting for the past 85 years. The right meanwhile, has been undermining those attempts at every turn (while proclaiming that the house they just knocked down was destined to fail) and hysterically claiming that the left was thisclose to engaging in its worst possible excess all while slowly creeping towards the worst possible excesses of the right.
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Yep
 
"Dad, what did you do when the government was incarcerating immigrant children fleeing poverty and gang violence"
"Well son, you see the US had the highest median income..."

One wonders what our world ranking was when MLK was admonishing white moderates.
 
I don’t think MLK called for death and unjust imprisonment for critics af racial injustice/oppression merely because they weren’t doing more than offering criticism.
 
My point wasn't that MLK called for death and unjust imprisonment. My point was that the social environment called for greater social action than voting for centrists. Or that "we have the highest median income" is a hilarious bad take to a question of whether the social conditions warrant different kinds of political action.
 
ConnorEl said:
I don’t think MLK called for death and unjust imprisonment for critics af racial injustice/oppression merely because they weren’t doing more than offering criticism.
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I have no idea what MLK posted on his fucking college sports message board. Shit white privilege country club compromise politics don't look any better by keeping a level head online. So me being hyperbolic about sending centrists to the fucking gulag upsets delicate sensibilities? Boo fuckin hoo.
 
Lesson learned though. I promise that when I become a world famous socialist activist, I wont call for my opponents to be tortured.
 
I love the "because trump is detaining people at the border, we have to vote for Democratic Socialists, who was led by a man this past election whose immigration policy is to the right of most establishment dems" line of reasoning.
 
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ConnorEl said:
I don’t think MLK called for death and unjust imprisonment for critics af racial injustice/oppression merely because they weren’t doing more than offering criticism.
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FWIW, MLK was only partially successful.

And although MDMH should probably be sent to the gulags for his incredibly insensitive hyperbole on such a serious forum, his overall point is correct.

The political history of the wealthy elite in the U.S. has been a story of two groups: those that actively supported racist, xenophobic, regressive politics and those that alternate between passively allowing those policies and begrudgingly opposing them based on the potential impact on their bottom line.

It’s been a debate over whether to oppress or placate the proletariat with the practical realization that to oppress one subsection of the proletariat is to placate another.

The mistake MDMH makes is in thinking that progressive democrats and centrists want the same thing but just disagree on how quickly we should move to get there.
 
ChrisL68 said:
I love the "because trump is detaining people at the border, we have to vote for Democratic Socialists, who was led by a man this past election whose immigration policy is to the right of most establishment dems" line of reasoning.
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"led by?"
 
ChrisL68 said:
I love the "because trump is detaining people at the border, we have to vote for Democratic Socialists, who was led by a man this past election whose immigration policy is to the right of most establishment dems" line of reasoning.
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I’m pretty sure Bernie’s immigration policy didn’t involve separating families seeking asylum and placing children in internment camps.

And despite what he calls himself, Bernie isn’t Democratic Socialist. Aggressively using the taxing and spending power of government to create a better social safety net and distribute wealth more equitably is a far cry from seizing the means of production through democratic means.
 
dems are pretty much universally opposed to those policies. and I understand the difference in nordic style economies and socialism. whenever I have tried to explain how Sanders tax policy puts him to the left of nordic policy but still to the right of socialism, everyone starts bitching about tax nerd talk.
 
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