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Former WF Hoops Asst Coach Jamil Jones gets probation for 3rd degree assault (update)

Good clarification. I just wanted to point out that "homicide" does have a legal definition in NY (I would assume most states are similar). The NY State Statutes also address the concept of a "justifiable homicide."

Of course, the text of the laws is only part of the equation. One person can read these laws and decide he is guilty of a crime and another person could decide he is not guilty. That's why we have a justice system with courts, judges, lawyers, juries, etc. But I do think Jones will be charged with something more serious than assault, i.e., one of the crimes listed under "homicide."

§ 35.05 Justification; generally.
Unless otherwise limited by the ensuing provisions of this article
defining justifiable use of physical force, conduct which would
otherwise constitute an offense is justifiable and not criminal when:
1. Such conduct is required or authorized by law or by a judicial
decree, or is performed by a public servant in the reasonable exercise
of his official powers, duties or functions; or
2. Such conduct is necessary as an emergency measure to avoid an
imminent public or private injury which is about to occur by reason of a
situation occasioned or developed through no fault of the actor, and
which is of such gravity that, according to ordinary standards of
intelligence and morality, the desirability and urgency of avoiding such
injury clearly outweigh the desirability of avoiding the injury sought
to be prevented by the statute defining the offense in issue. The
necessity and justifiability of such conduct may not rest upon
considerations pertaining only to the morality and advisability of the
statute, either in its general application or with respect to its
application to a particular class of cases arising thereunder. Whenever
evidence relating to the defense of justification under this subdivision
is offered by the defendant, the court shall rule as a matter of law
whether the claimed facts and circumstances would, if established,
constitute a defense.

35.10 Justification; use of physical force generally.
The use of physical force upon another person which would otherwise
constitute an offense is justifiable and not criminal under any of the
following circumstances:
1. A parent, guardian or other person entrusted with the care and
supervision of a person under the age of twenty-one or an incompetent
person, and a teacher or other person entrusted with the care and
supervision of a person under the age of twenty-one for a special
purpose, may use physical force, but not deadly physical force, upon
such person when and to the extent that he reasonably believes it
necessary to maintain discipline or to promote the welfare of such
person.
2. A warden or other authorized official of a jail, prison or
correctional institution may, in order to maintain order and discipline,
use such physical force as is authorized by the correction law.
3. A person responsible for the maintenance of order in a common
carrier of passengers, or a person acting under his direction, may use
physical force when and to the extent that he reasonably believes it
necessary to maintain order, but he may use deadly physical force only
when he reasonably believes it necessary to prevent death or serious
physical injury.
4. A person acting under a reasonable belief that another person is
about to commit suicide or to inflict serious physical injury upon
himself may use physical force upon such person to the extent that he
reasonably believes it necessary to thwart such result.
5. A duly licensed physician, or a person acting under a physician's
direction, may use physical force for the purpose of administering a
recognized form of treatment which he or she reasonably believes to be
adapted to promoting the physical or mental health of the patient if (a)
the treatment is administered with the consent of the patient or, if the
patient is under the age of eighteen years or an incompetent person,
with the consent of the parent, guardian or other person entrusted with
the patient's care and supervision, or (b) the treatment is administered
in an emergency when the physician reasonably believes that no one
competent to consent can be consulted and that a reasonable person,
wishing to safeguard the welfare of the patient, would consent.
6. A person may, pursuant to the ensuing provisions of this article,
use physical force upon another person in self-defense or defense of a
third person, or in defense of premises, or in order to prevent larceny
of or criminal mischief to property, or in order to effect an arrest or
prevent an escape from custody. Whenever a person is authorized by any
such provision to use deadly physical force in any given circumstance,
nothing contained in any other such provision may be deemed to negate or
qualify such authorization.

35.15 Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person.
1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subdivision two, use
physical force upon another person when and to the extent he or she
reasonably believes such to be necessary to defend himself, herself or a
third person from what he or she reasonably believes to be the use or
imminent use of unlawful physical force by such other person, unless:
(a) The latter's conduct was provoked by the actor with intent to
cause physical injury to another person; or
(b) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case the
use of physical force is nevertheless justifiable if the actor has
withdrawn from the encounter and effectively communicated such
withdrawal to such other person but the latter persists in continuing
the incident by the use or threatened imminent use of unlawful physical
force; or
(c) The physical force involved is the product of a combat by
agreement not specifically authorized by law.
2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person
under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless:
(a) The actor reasonably believes that such other person is using or
about to use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the
actor may not use deadly physical force if he or she knows that with
complete personal safety, to oneself and others he or she may avoid the
necessity of so doing by retreating; except that the actor is under no
duty to retreat if he or she is:
(i) in his or her dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or
(ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police
officer or a peace officer at the latter's direction, acting pursuant to
section 35.30; or
(b) He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing
or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible criminal
sexual act or robbery; or
(c) He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing
or attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that
the use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of
section 35.20.

Bob, appreciate your photos but let’s let the lawyers do their thing in NY, okay?
 
This guy has to go immediately. I don't care if the facts and circumstances are even close to being on Jones' side. The dude left the scene of a crime and the guy ended up dying. Can't go into a recruits home and tell their parents that we are a family and do things the right way.
 
This guy has to go immediately. I don't care if the facts and circumstances are even close to being on Jones' side. The dude left the scene of a crime and the guy ended up dying. Can't go into a recruits home and tell their parents that we are a family and do things the right way.

You can safely say that he has coached his last day at Wake.
 
What does this even mean?

Baylor announces its Christian heritage on its home page. Baylor was founded by the Baptists. Baylor had an episode where a basketball player murdered a team mate. There are multiple allegations of sexual assault at Baylor.
Now Wake (another school founded by Baptists) has an assistant basketball coach charged with assault on a guy who since has died.

Two universities with Baptist roots who have a basketball program associated person involved in a violent death.

Does that help your understanding?
 
But the losers call me “classless” and “pathetic” for calling for his head.

Stop lying Drew. It was about this lie:

"This is the chance to enrage the libs."

The TRUTH is those "libs" AGREE with firing Wellman and have for MANY years.

Since you are trying to morph into your hero, Trump, I'm guessing you'll be going bankrupt soon.
 
Stan gable is correct. Ignoring the fleeing of scene issue which makes it a no brainer wouldn’t you expect to fire a coach that thinks it’s the right thing to do to go to confront a clearly drunk and likely belligerent man instead of calling police and telling the guy you have called the cops. I mean even if the man lived I would hope he would be fired. You can’t have reps of your university making those kind of decisions and going vigilante and thinking engaging a drunk guy is wise. Now if it comes out that he was trying to protect someone else from being pummeled could help, but sounds like one fella just got decked once and that was it before Jamil came on the scene. Fleeing scene definitely is the nail in the proverbial coffin.
 
What is wrong with quoting the laws that are obviously relevant to the case? Are you suggesting that we stop discussing the legal aspects of the case? That's not realistic on a forum whose motto is "Discuss Wake Forest Athletics. Freely."
Bob with great, solid info. Thanks, Bob.
 
You can safely say that he has coached his last day at Wake.

I agree. I also think his separation from Wake will be incremental. On leave Friday. "Reassigned within AD" sometime soon. Then either fired or resigns as his case plays out.

Wake will try to tightrope the line between "rush to judgement" and "coddling an alleged criminal."
 
This guy has to go immediately. I don't care if the facts and circumstances are even close to being on Jones' side. The dude left the scene of a crime and the guy ended up dying. Can't go into a recruits home and tell their parents that we are a family and do things the right way.

Clearly, he needs toupee for his crime.
 
Stop lying Drew. It was about this lie:

"This is the chance to enrage the libs."

The TRUTH is those "libs" AGREE with firing Wellman and have for MANY years.

Since you are trying to morph into your hero, Trump, I'm guessing you'll be going bankrupt soon.

No, just Making America Great Again after 8 losing years of Obama giving away the country and trying to have everybody like us instead of the U.S. being the most powerful country in the world which is what we are. Most of us appreciate our world dominance, capitalism and winning. I also appreciate a person who has gone bankrupt and come back from it to become a billionaire. You have to take chances in the business world to make it big and sometimes they don't always pay off. The true winners are the ones that get off the mat and do it again.
 
No, just Making America Great Again after 8 losing years of Obama giving away the country and trying to have everybody like us instead of the U.S. being the most powerful country in the world which is what we are. Most of us appreciate our world dominance, capitalism and winning. I also appreciate a person who has gone bankrupt and come back from it to become a billionaire. You have to take chances in the business world to make it big and sometimes they don't always pay off. The true winners are the ones that get off the mat and do it again.

Don't forget the same guy said there "many fine people" screaming "white power", "Jews will not replace us", Sieg Heil". The same guy who gave Kim credibility while Kim spat in his face and is building more nukes. The same guy who kissed Putin's ass.

Seven billion people on Earth and Reff was the only one Skip didn't like. Niiiiiicccceeeee..
 
20 page mark. Surprised it took so long to turn into a MAGA vs Commies pissing match.
 
These idiots still think Trump declared bankruptcy. Almost as stupid as the banks that chose to make loans without the personal guarantee. Only Wake Forest grads could be so stupid. No wonder we suck.
 
Please leave Trump and politics off this thread. It is actually an important one that shouldn't get dragged down with non-sequitur opinions.
I think there is definitely a story where Jones acted in self defense and didn't do anything I wouldn't have done in his shoes. He punched a guy, once. In no way did he ever dream the dude would die. Hopefully, he ensured an ambulance had arrived before leaving.
Unfortunately, I would expect to lose my job if I did those things while representing a university and recruiting kids, even though I think I might have made the same decision over and over in the same scenario.
If he punches the guy hard and the guy goes down like a normal person (yes, if the guy was as drunk as he sounds that is definitely a potential factor in the severity of his injuries), there would have been no story, no crime. Potentially just a self defense issue or one where many observers would say "thank you" to him.
I can't see a story where we let him stay on but think the university is doing right by giving him the benefit of the doubt and not firing him immediately without learning the truth first.
 
WTF is the matter with you people ?

Oh, it's RJ. Nevermind.
 
Please leave Trump and politics off this thread. It is actually an important one that shouldn't get dragged down with non-sequitur opinions.
I think there is definitely a story where Jones acted in self defense and didn't do anything I wouldn't have done in his shoes. He punched a guy, once. In no way did he ever dream the dude would die. Hopefully, he ensured an ambulance had arrived before leaving.
Unfortunately, I would expect to lose my job if I did those things while representing a university and recruiting kids, even though I think I might have made the same decision over and over in the same scenario.
If he punches the guy hard and the guy goes down like a normal person (yes, if the guy was as drunk as he sounds that is definitely a potential factor in the severity of his injuries), there would have been no story, no crime. Potentially just a self defense issue or one where many observers would say "thank you" to him.
I can't see a story where we let him stay on but think the university is doing right by giving him the benefit of the doubt and not firing him immediately without learning the truth first.

This is where you people miss the point. Punching someone hard can result in death. When it doesn’t, it’s an assault. When it does, it’s Murder 2. Learn from this. The criminal statutes are horrible. You drink and drive one time and could go to jail 5-6 years in the highly unlikely chance someone dies. You punch someone and they die could be 30 years. Fair left the train station decades ago.
 
Please leave Trump and politics off this thread. It is actually an important one that shouldn't get dragged down with non-sequitur opinions.
I think there is definitely a story where Jones acted in self defense and didn't do anything I wouldn't have done in his shoes. He punched a guy, once. In no way did he ever dream the dude would die. Hopefully, he ensured an ambulance had arrived before leaving.
Unfortunately, I would expect to lose my job if I did those things while representing a university and recruiting kids, even though I think I might have made the same decision over and over in the same scenario.
If he punches the guy hard and the guy goes down like a normal person (yes, if the guy was as drunk as he sounds that is definitely a potential factor in the severity of his injuries), there would have been no story, no crime. Potentially just a self defense issue or one where many observers would say "thank you" to him.
I can't see a story where we let him stay on but think the university is doing right by giving him the benefit of the doubt and not firing him immediately without learning the truth first.

I agree with Doggus completely. The following would be a no culpability sequence: (1) Szabo hits car hard; (2) Jones gets out to see if there is damage and confronts Szabo; (3) Szabo is belligerent and yells; charges or takes a swing: (4) Jones counters with a punch that knocks Szabo off his feet: (5) Jones does what he can to help Szabo recover
This sequence would be not guilty of misdemeanor 3rd degree assault. Szabo initiated the entire scenario. An underlying assumption in much of the reporting has been that Szabo was tapping on car windows looking for an Uber, lightly enough that there is no possibility he would damage a car, so there would be no reason for Jones to leave his vehicle. Other reporting had said he created a ruckus, which means he would have hit cars hard enough that a driver would suspect damage and want to get out. We only know outcomes, not details.
 
There is at least one question that has to be asked about the situation that hasn't been and that is, "what was Jamill Jones' business in New York City?"

Was it personal, visiting friends, family etc., or was there some connection to his job at Wake?

If he was pushing the envelope on quiet period contact with recruit(s) that could reflect very badly back to Wake. During the quiet period (Aug 1 - Sep 8, 2018), coaches in person contact with prospective student athletes is limited to on college campus. Coaches are not allowed to visit the recruit's home or high school. Coaches can also contact the HS recruit by letters phone calls etc.
 
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