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Former WF Hoops Asst Coach Jamil Jones gets probation for 3rd degree assault (update)

I don't live in NC and haven't in more than 30 years.

My experience over that time does not agree with the contention that WF is athletically irrelevant, but then again, that is such a subjective assessment, that there is no correct answer.

Understand that many WF "fans" feel that the WF athletic department only means the men's basketball program. I don't agree with that notion either.
 
Pilchard said:
I don't live in NC and haven't in more than 30 years.

My experience over that time does not agree with the contention that WF is athletically irrelevant, but then again, that is such a subjective assessment, that there is no correct answer.

Understand that many WF "fans" feel that the WF athletic department only means the men's basketball program. I don't agree with that notion either.
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No question Wake has excelled in irrelevant sports in recent years. Like it or not Wake is/was athletically defined by our basketball program. I post here because I grew up in the glory days of Wake basketball, and I needed somewhere to vent my frustrations over the Buzz hire.

Our football team might be on the verge of pulling us back into relevancy, but to 95% of america at this point it's "Ohhh Wake, ok, isn't that the school that used to be pretty good at basketball" or some variation similar to that. It sucks, and hopefully will change.
 
That was good to finally have a reason for Jamill being in New York. And that it was personal business, not something connected with his job.
 
The GOOD sets to Hamilton are only $869 each....and you should be able to get some by 2050.
 
Deaconblue said:
That was good to finally have a reason for Jamill being in New York. And that it was personal business, not something connected with his job.
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For a situation that is clearly tragic and sad, I have a difficult time putting a lot of blame on Jones based on the information available. He wasn't drunk at a bar looking for a fight, he was in his car and he was confronted. Additionally the aggressor assaulted another person before Jones became involved. If the situation here is what is being reported, then I feel he is justified in punching the deceased. It is certainly unfortunate, but if I was a parent of the 17 year old that was punched for no reason, I would hope that an adult would intervene and neutralize the threat. We may still not know all the facts to the case, so this opinion could be irrelevant if/when more facts are revealed but based on the timeline presented:

1. Jones in car
2. Drunk guy bangs on multiple cars, including Jones' car, and is making a scene at 1am
3. 17 year old resident steps outside and tells drunk to tone it down and be quiet
4. Jones steps out of car
5. 17 year old is punched by drunk guy
6. Jones approaches and punches drunk guy
7. Drunk falls awkwardly after strong punch and hits his head on the sidewalk curb
8. Ambulance is called as it is clear drunk guy is not doing well (one report claimed that Jones was 'caring' for the drunk by clearing his passageway when he was struggling to breath)

The only step in this game where I find clear fault with Jones is:

9. Jones leaves before police arrive

If Jones just would have stayed and explained the situation, and faced the music immediately the facts seem to line up to him justifiably hitting the aggressor. Leaving the scene is understandable (I don't care who you are, most people would have bounced from this scene out of fear...justified punch or not), but it is not excusable.

It would not shock me at all to see the charges dropped though, or reduced to something insignificant (if the facts above are what actually occurred).

Also really glad to see that he was not illegally recruiting at the time (or at least he seems to have a very believable alibi for the NCAA).
 
Wrangor said:
For a situation that is clearly tragic and sad, I have a difficult time putting a lot of blame on Jones based on the information available. He wasn't drunk at a bar looking for a fight, he was in his car and he was confronted. Additionally the aggressor assaulted another person before Jones became involved. If the situation here is what is being reported, then I feel he is justified in punching the deceased. It is certainly unfortunate, but if I was a parent of the 17 year old that was punched for no reason, I would hope that an adult would intervene and neutralize the threat. We may still not know all the facts to the case, so this opinion could be irrelevant if/when more facts are revealed but based on the timeline presented:

1. Jones in car
2. Drunk guy bangs on multiple cars, including Jones' car, and is making a scene at 1am
3. 17 year old resident steps outside and tells drunk to tone it down and be quiet
4. Jones steps out of car
5. 17 year old is punched by drunk guy
6. Jones approaches and punches drunk guy
7. Drunk falls awkwardly after strong punch and hits his head on the sidewalk curb
8. Ambulance is called as it is clear drunk guy is not doing well (one report claimed that Jones was 'caring' for the drunk by clearing his passageway when he was struggling to breath)

The only step in this game where I find clear fault with Jones is:

9. Jones leaves before police arrive

If Jones just would have stayed and explained the situation, and faced the music immediately the facts seem to line up to him justifiably hitting the aggressor. Leaving the scene is understandable (I don't care who you are, most people would have bounced from this scene out of fear...justified punch or not), but it is not excusable.

It would not shock me at all to see the charges dropped though, or reduced to something insignificant (if the facts above are what actually occurred).

Also really glad to see that he was not illegally recruiting at the time (or at least he seems to have a very believable alibi for the NCAA).
Click to expand...

Was the 17 YO injured? Did Jones try to assist him otherwise? Did Jones actually see the 17 YO get assaulted? Why didn't Jones just drive off when the guy started pounding on his car? Those are other unanswered questions I have.
 
Wrangor said:
For a situation that is clearly tragic and sad, I have a difficult time putting a lot of blame on Jones based on the information available. He wasn't drunk at a bar looking for a fight, he was in his car and he was confronted. Additionally the aggressor assaulted another person before Jones became involved. If the situation here is what is being reported, then I feel he is justified in punching the deceased. It is certainly unfortunate, but if I was a parent of the 17 year old that was punched for no reason, I would hope that an adult would intervene and neutralize the threat. We may still not know all the facts to the case, so this opinion could be irrelevant if/when more facts are revealed but based on the timeline presented:

1. Jones in car
2. Drunk guy bangs on multiple cars, including Jones' car, and is making a scene at 1am
3. 17 year old resident steps outside and tells drunk to tone it down and be quiet
4. Jones steps out of car
5. 17 year old is punched by drunk guy
6. Jones approaches and punches drunk guy
7. Drunk falls awkwardly after strong punch and hits his head on the sidewalk curb
8. Ambulance is called as it is clear drunk guy is not doing well (one report claimed that Jones was 'caring' for the drunk by clearing his passageway when he was struggling to breath)

The only step in this game where I find clear fault with Jones is:

9. Jones leaves before police arrive

If Jones just would have stayed and explained the situation, and faced the music immediately the facts seem to line up to him justifiably hitting the aggressor. Leaving the scene is understandable (I don't care who you are, most people would have bounced from this scene out of fear...justified punch or not), but it is not excusable.

It would not shock me at all to see the charges dropped though, or reduced to something insignificant (if the facts above are what actually occurred).

Also really glad to see that he was not illegally recruiting at the time (or at least he seems to have a very believable alibi for the NCAA).
Click to expand...

is there agreement that this is the timeline presented?

I haven't seen any credible report (haven't read an update in a while) that the resident mentioned in points #3 and 5 was 17 - just that there was a 17-year-old witness
 
Wrangor said:
For a situation that is clearly tragic and sad, I have a difficult time putting a lot of blame on Jones based on the information available. He wasn't drunk at a bar looking for a fight, he was in his car and he was confronted. Additionally the aggressor assaulted another person before Jones became involved. If the situation here is what is being reported, then I feel he is justified in punching the deceased. It is certainly unfortunate, but if I was a parent of the 17 year old that was punched for no reason, I would hope that an adult would intervene and neutralize the threat. We may still not know all the facts to the case, so this opinion could be irrelevant if/when more facts are revealed but based on the timeline presented:

1. Jones in car
2. Drunk guy bangs on multiple cars, including Jones' car, and is making a scene at 1am
3. 17 year old resident steps outside and tells drunk to tone it down and be quiet We don't know the 17 year old was the one who confronted Szabo
4. Jones steps out of car We don't know if the punch thrown by Szabo was before or after Jones got out of the car, or if Jones was aware another man had been struck.
5. 17 year old is punched by drunk guy We don't know it was the 17 year old who was punched
6. Jones approaches and punches drunk guy
7. Drunk falls awkwardly after strong punch and hits his head on the sidewalk curb Your making an assumption that he fell due to being drunk, vs being unconscious immediately after being hit. The fact that he didn't brace himself before hitting his head on the curb could mean either of those two things. We also know the force from the punch was strong enough to cause Szabo's upper lip to completely punctured by his upper teeth.
8. Ambulance is called as it is clear drunk guy is not doing well (one report claimed that Jones was 'caring' for the drunk by clearing his passageway when he was struggling to breath)We don't know who or at what time that an ambulance was called following the incident, just that Jones and a 17 yo propped him up before Jones left the scene.

The only step in this game where I find clear fault with Jones is:

9. Jones leaves before police arrive

If Jones just would have stayed and explained the situation, and faced the music immediately the facts seem to line up to him justifiably hitting the aggressor. Leaving the scene is understandable (I don't care who you are, most people would have bounced from this scene out of fear...justified punch or not), but it is not excusable.

It would not shock me at all to see the charges dropped though, or reduced to something insignificant (if the facts above are what actually occurred).

Also really glad to see that he was not illegally recruiting at the time (or at least he seems to have a very believable alibi for the NCAA).
Click to expand...

Unless I missed a new report....
 
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thatguy2016 said:
is there agreement that this is the timeline presented?

I haven't seen any credible report (haven't read an update in a while) that the resident mentioned in points #3 and 5 was 17 - just that there was a 17-year-old witness
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That’s why I qualified the statement. We won’t know the veracity of those details until he goes to court I imagine. Obviously any number of alterations to that list of statements can reverse or alter his level of responsibility and subsequent deserved punishment/result.

I have seen that a 17 year old was punched in some of the reporting. Obviously no official/police confirmation.
 
You should never get out of your car at 1am if a drunk guy is banging on the window. Drive off. There is no good that can come from the situation.
 
WFUWaldo said:
You should never get out of your car at 1am if a drunk guy is banging on the window. Drive off. There is no good that can come from the situation.
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But it's possible that if Szabo "slammed" the car as one report said, Jones thought he had hit him with the car and that's why he got out.
Also omitted in timelines is the strong possibility (and I'd say way more than 50% it will be claimed by the defense in court if it gets that far) that Szabo threw the first punch, so Jones was not the aggressor at all.
 
Of course there is good that can come from that situation. Drunk dude could have seriously injured someone, intervening could prevent that.

Who knows what actually happened, but I'm guessing most people have at least been involved in a situation where someone got deservedly punched/tackled/restrained. Personally I remember being in Adams Morgan in DC with a group of friends - we see this big guy drunk off his ass but spewing a bunch of homophobic nonsense. Then he zeroes in on someone he assumes is gay and grabs the guy like he's going to shove him into this brick wall that could have resulted in a legit injury... Friend of mine ducks in front of the wall, catches them, knocks the guy out cold. Probably 10 people around clap and high-five him. Couple people hang around for a minute to make sure the idiot is breathing ok, we leave and see some cops coming up... Nobody cares, he absolutely deserved it and I assume he ended up just fine.

Obviously I have no idea what really happened during the Jones incident, but there are certainly scenarios that have not been ruled out where I'd consider him completely justified. How different would it be if Jones had simply pushed him and the guy drunkenly tripped and fell down some stairs? Generally you shouldn't get drunk and start fights with strangers.
 
Based on what’s been reported, it seems like the overwhelming majority of likely scenarios would support a self defense or defense of others claim.

If reports are true, we know there was a belligerent drunk making a ton of noise, “knocking” on a bunch of random cars (who the fuck knocks on the window of their Uber), and assaulting people who confront him.

It’s possible Jones got out his car and cold clocked the guy with no provocation, but based on what we know about Jones that seems unlikely.

It seems far more likely that:

1. Jones saw Szabo punch someone and got out of the car to prevent him from causing more damage;

2. Jones saw Szabo punch someone, got out of the car to confront him, and then punched him when Szabo got aggressive;

3. Jones got pissed cause Szabo was banging on his car, got out to confront him, and then punched him when Szabo got aggressive.


I’m far more interested in the timeline beginning when the guy hit the pavement.
 
RChildress107 said:
Based on what’s been reported, it seems like the overwhelming majority of likely scenarios would support a self defense or defense of others claim.

If reports are true, we know there was a belligerent drunk making a ton of noise, “knocking” on a bunch of random cars (who the fuck knocks on the window of their Uber), and assaulting people who confront him.

It’s possible Jones got out his car and cold clocked the guy with no provocation, but based on what we know about Jones that seems unlikely.

It seems far more likely that:

1. Jones saw Szabo punch someone and got out of the car to prevent him from causing more damage;

2. Jones saw Szabo punch someone, got out of the car to confront him, and then punched him when Szabo got aggressive;

3. Jones got pissed cause Szabo was banging on his car, got out to confront him, and then punched him when Szabo got aggressive.


I’m far more interested in the timeline beginning when the guy hit the pavement.
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I hope to God you don't represent people with real, serious legal problems. Internet Cowboy lawyering. Nice look!
 
coredeac said:
I hope to God you don't represent people with real, serious legal problems. Internet Cowboy lawyering. Nice look!
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You disagree?

I’m not a criminal lawyer so I’m certainly not an expert, and a having fact pattern that supports a self defense claim isn’t the same as being able to prove that fact pattern to a jury, but it would require a pretty bizarre scenario, IMO, for Jones to not have a self defense claim here.
 
KingW said:
But it's possible that if Szabo "slammed" the car as one report said, Jones thought he had hit him with the car and that's why he got out.
Also omitted in timelines is the strong possibility (and I'd say way more than 50% it will be claimed by the defense in court if it gets that far) that Szabo threw the first punch, so Jones was not the aggressor at all.
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Yeah he thought he hit him

Realized he hadn’t

Then finished to job
 
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