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Thread: Hoops Asst. Coach Jamil Jones charged with assault on man who later died in hospital

  1. #701
    Quote Originally Posted by BobHWS View Post
    I don't believe the allegation reported in the NY Post (by Jones' lawyer and an unnamed law enforcement person) that Szabo "shattered" the rear window of Jones' BMW.

    It's very difficult to break a car window with your hands or fists. For example:

    https://youtu.be/Ia23XWYdfbs

    It can be done with a proper tool:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QCz4nXDq7w

    I don't believe that Szabo broke the window even if he had been (tapping, knocking, banging-choose one) on it. Modern car windows simply don't break that easily. I also find it ridiculous to believe that Szabo just happened to have a window breaking tool on him or that he picked up a big rock and spontaneously decided to use it in order to get the attention of someone that he thought might be his Uber driver.

    I don't know who broke the window or when it was broken. The allegation that Szabo broke it sounds like a desperate attempt to justify what Jones did to Szabo. But even if Szabo did somehow break the window, then I still don't think it was a good reason to kill him.
    I have exactly the same amount of independent knowledge of the situation as everyone else here - zero. I'm sometime amazed at the strength with which people form conclusions like this one - knowing nothing about it.

    This whole story is tragic and strange. It seems really weird to me that Jones would get out of his car and punch some random guy. The simplest explanation is typically the most likely to be true. In this case, to me, the simplest explanation is that the guy did something out of the ordinary to motivate Jones to, first, get out of his car, and, second, punch him. Breaking his window would certainly qualify.

    The other explanation that made sense to me was that the guy was attacking someone else - from the story that he punched the resident that came out of the building.

    I guess it is also possible that Jones is a 'roided-up maniac with a crazy temper and punched the guy for no reason - but I know of no facts in evidence that support that?

    The bolded sentence above is just ignorant. Mentioning a 'reason to kill him' is just dumb, since I don't think anyone has alleged that Jones intended to kill the guy. You could have said 'reason to punch him' and been much more accurate.

    We won't know the true story of what went down until the thing goes to trial - until then we can continue to guess based on any facts/rumors that trickle out...

  2. #702
    Quote Originally Posted by RChildress107 View Post
    That’s almost certainly not true and wasn’t the question anyways.
    If you read the previously linked articles about one punch deaths, almost all mention the victim's head comtacting pavement, curb, concrete etc. hard. And that is actually what causes the fatal injury.

    The other scenario is a drunk not protecting his head from snapping back and having an artery in his rain tear a as a result.

    Both appear to be part of the Jones-Szabo situation. Szabo was reported to be drunk and he is supposed to have hit his head on the curb after being punched.

    If we are going to discuss "one punch" deaths in this context, it would seem much more relevant to discuss "one punch plus head hitting concrete curb" deaths. Those seem to be the bulk of "one punch" deaths. Not "one punch and landed on a pile of pillows" deaths.

  3. #703
    Quote Originally Posted by netflixnchildres View Post
    Regardless if his intent was to kill, which it likely wasn't, any time you punch someone there is a chance they die and you have to face the consequences. The only exception being boxing or MMA fights where the opponent knowingly accepts the risk.

    If you’re speaking of civil negligence, you’re correct. Not the case for criminal law however. In order for the mens rea to rise to recklessness (which would be needed for it to elevated to a felony) there would have to be a substantial likelihood of death, and “there is a chance it could happen” doesn’t get you there.

    The amount of armchair lawyers on this thread pretending they know what they’re talking about is hilarious.

  4. #704
    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Gable View Post
    Unless they have video or physical evidence at the scene of the crime, the "shattered window" excuse is not admissible. Jones lost that defense when he drove away from the crime scene. He could have easily gone home and smashed the window himself.

  5. #705
    Quote Originally Posted by BobHWS View Post
    I don't believe the allegation reported in the NY Post (by Jones' lawyer and an unnamed law enforcement person) that Szabo "shattered" the rear window of Jones' BMW.

    It's very difficult to break a car window with your hands or fists. For example:

    https://youtu.be/Ia23XWYdfbs

    It can be done with a proper tool:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QCz4nXDq7w

    I don't believe that Szabo broke the window even if he had been (tapping, knocking, banging-choose one) on it. Modern car windows simply don't break that easily. I also find it ridiculous to believe that Szabo just happened to have a window breaking tool on him or that he picked up a big rock and spontaneously decided to use it in order to get the attention of someone that he thought might be his Uber driver.

    I don't know who broke the window or when it was broken. The allegation that Szabo broke it sounds like a desperate attempt to justify what Jones did to Szabo. But even if Szabo did somehow break the window, then I still don't think it was a good reason to kill him.
    Let’s do “anecdotal bullshit” for $100, Alex.

  6. #706
    Quote Originally Posted by wfumike02 View Post
    Let’s do “anecdotal bullshit” for $100, Alex.
    Seriously, didn't y'all see Karate Kid 2?

  7. #707
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    Hey guys. What if the window already had a crack, but he then pounded on it and it smashed.

    Can we get an assessment on if that’s plausible?

  8. #708
    Quote Originally Posted by wfumike02 View Post
    If you’re speaking of civil negligence, you’re correct. Not the case for criminal law however. In order for the mens rea to rise to recklessness (which would be needed for it to elevated to a felony) there would have to be a substantial likelihood of death, and “there is a chance it could happen” doesn’t get you there.

    The amount of armchair lawyers on this thread pretending they know what they’re talking about is hilarious.
    You're hilarious, go look up appellate cases that upheld convictions in similar circumstances. A jury could find Jones intentional act of raising his fist and punching the deceased in the face could constitute purposeful conduct designed to cause serious bodily injury. A jury reasonably could find purposeful intention from the mental and physical effort Jones must have exerted to strike that blow resulting in a 1 punch knockout. That is enough for a DA to argue Jones' conscious objective was to cause serious bodily injury, and that a person who inflicted such a blow to a man's head would have known that the injury to the head and brain created a substantial risk of death when combined with creating a loss of consciousness resulting in a fall where the head meets concrete.

    At a minimum, a jury reasonably could find that Jones' act demonstrated an awareness that his conduct would cause serious bodily injury, and thus the alternative knowing standard of culpability could be found to exist. Additional evidence supports that. For example, Jones' leaving the scene before medical assistance or police arrived, could be regarded as evidence that Jones' was aware that the now deceased was significantly injured and that there was a substantial risk that what Jones' had just done was the cause.

    BTW while you sitting on your high horse thinking you're the greatest of all time, remember not to bounce to hard on that dildo stuck all the way up your ass.

  9. #709
    "you're sitting on your high horse"... "not to bounce too hard" *editing function broken again on OGBoards

  10. #710
    oh good more lawyer talk is coming

  11. #711
    Quote Originally Posted by netflixnchildres View Post
    You're hilarious, go look up appellate cases that upheld convictions in similar circumstances. A jury could find Jones intentional act of raising his fist and punching the deceased in the face could constitute purposeful conduct designed to cause serious bodily injury. A jury reasonably could find purposeful intention from the mental and physical effort Jones must have exerted to strike that blow resulting in a 1 punch knockout. That is enough for a DA to argue Jones' conscious objective was to cause serious bodily injury, and that a person who inflicted such a blow to a man's head would have known that the injury to the head and brain created a substantial risk of death when combined with creating a loss of consciousness resulting in a fall where the head meets concrete.

    At a minimum, a jury reasonably could find that Jones' act demonstrated an awareness that his conduct would cause serious bodily injury, and thus the alternative knowing standard of culpability could be found to exist. Additional evidence supports that. For example, Jones' leaving the scene before medical assistance or police arrived, could be regarded as evidence that Jones' was aware that the now deceased was significantly injured and that there was a substantial risk that what Jones' had just done was the cause.

    BTW while you sitting on your high horse thinking you're the greatest of all time, remember not to bounce to hard on that dildo stuck all the way up your ass.
    Look out, we’ve got a 1L on the loose.

  12. #712
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobHWS View Post
    I don't believe the allegation reported in the NY Post (by Jones' lawyer and an unnamed law enforcement person) that Szabo "shattered" the rear window of Jones' BMW.

    It's very difficult to break a car window with your hands or fists. For example:

    https://youtu.be/Ia23XWYdfbs

    It can be done with a proper tool:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QCz4nXDq7w

    I don't believe that Szabo broke the window even if he had been (tapping, knocking, banging-choose one) on it. Modern car windows simply don't break that easily. I also find it ridiculous to believe that Szabo just happened to have a window breaking tool on him or that he picked up a big rock and spontaneously decided to use it in order to get the attention of someone that he thought might be his Uber driver.

    I don't know who broke the window or when it was broken. The allegation that Szabo broke it sounds like a desperate attempt to justify what Jones did to Szabo. But even if Szabo did somehow break the window, then I still don't think it was a good reason to kill him.
    https://youtu.be/L91_K-s4pMM

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