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Former WF Hoops Asst Coach Jamil Jones gets probation for 3rd degree assault (update)

tigerswood said:
So many people here want to let the legal system play out and, if Jones is cleared of charges, reinstate him? Yet everyone, seemingly, thinks Urban Myer should have been fired for doing almost exactly that - relying on the legal system in regards to allegations that never materialized into charges (or an arrest, as there was in this case).

What am I missing?
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I haven’t heard anyone say Jones should be reinstated automatically if he’s found innocent. As someone mentioned, the University should have different standards than the legal system. They should conduct their own investigation to determine whether Jones violated those standards. Based on what’s been reported, it seems unlikely that the result of that investigation would be Jones keeping his job.
 
Pilchard said:
Renting a car is not weird. In my experience, renting a car in NYC is weird. Almost everyone (including most of those that live there and essentially all that visit) get around via car service (taxi, uber, etc) or subway or some other form of transportation that does not involve driving a car yourself. Then again, while strange (at least to me), the fact that Jones rented a car is not really relevant to the issue.

Also, it is insane to attempt to conclude whether a) Jones committed a crime or b) WF should terminate Jones' employment at this point. As all those posting here are entirely basing their judgment upon facts disclosed in a NY Post article (and the limited reporting all of which seems to flow from the NY Post article). Guessing that the details of incident (whether helpful or harmful to Jones) are far different than the limited publicly available information. WF is smart to let the process run its course; assemble all of the facts and then make an informed decision. Something not possible here.
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Pilch, no one thinks renting a car in general is weird. We're talking about NYC.

I do agree that it's hard to make a conclusion based on what we know.

tiger, I think Jones is getting more sympathy from us than Urban because all of us have probably been in situations where we could have hit or even did hit somebody and the worst could have happened and thankfully didn't. I doubt many of us have protected a spousal abuser.
 
We also don’t know that he was just visiting NYC on his trip. Driving a car, rental or otherwise, to NYC isn’t that weird depending on where you are coming from.
 
tigerswood said:
So many people here want to let the legal system play out and, if Jones is cleared of charges, reinstate him? Yet everyone, seemingly, thinks Urban Myer should have been fired for doing almost exactly that - relying on the legal system in regards to allegations that never materialized into charges (or an arrest, as there was in this case).

What am I missing?
Click to expand...

Urban Meyer ignored crimes for probably a decade. Our dude did something wrong and we suspended him indefinitely as soon as we found out. I think Jones is gone anyway but they two situations are night and day, esp when it comes to actions of the schools.

Let's also not forget our starting QB will serve the same suspension as Meyer for driving sober w beer in his trunk. Congrats on your football and blood money OSU, its literally all you have in flyover cuntry.
 
PhDeac said:
Pilch, no one thinks renting a car in general is weird. We're talking about NYC.

I do agree that it's hard to make a conclusion based on what we know.

tiger, I think Jones is getting more sympathy from us than Urban because all of us have probably been in situations where we could have hit or even did hit somebody and the worst could have happened and thankfully didn't. I doubt many of us have protected a spousal abuser.
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Hey, you know what the difference between Courtney Smith and Sandor Szabo is? .... nothing they both were asking for it. (telling it like Norm MacDonald)
 
Pilchard said:
Renting a car is not weird. In my experience, renting a car in NYC is weird. Almost everyone (including most of those that live there and essentially all that visit) get around via car service (taxi, uber, etc) or subway or some other form of transportation that does not involve driving a car yourself. Then again, while strange (at least to me), the fact that Jones rented a car is not really relevant to the issue.

Also, it is insane to attempt to conclude whether a) Jones committed a crime or b) WF should terminate Jones' employment at this point. As all those posting here are entirely basing their judgment upon facts disclosed in a NY Post article (and the limited reporting all of which seems to flow from the NY Post article). Guessing that the details of incident (whether helpful or harmful to Jones) are far different than the limited publicly available information. WF is smart to let the process run its course; assemble all of the facts and then make an informed decision. Something not possible here.
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We know two things that could be justification for his firing at Wake.

1. He got out of his car to fight a drunk dude at 1am in the morning.
2. He left a dying dude in the streets as he fled the scene of a crime.

It sucks for him especially with a promising career and as a father of two, but those two points look really bad from an employment perspective.
 
We don't know the nature of the confrontation between Jones and the drunkard (was Jones defending himself, his girlfriend, someone else or did Jones sucker punch the drunkard).

The condition of the deceased immediately after the punch is also unknown: was he immediately unconscious? was he convulsing? was he continuing to act as a threat?

While it may seem unlikely that there are facts that would completely exonerate Jones, an employer has duty to ensure it has gathered all of the facts before making a termination decision when the employer seeks to terminate the employee before the end of his contract term (meaning the employee is not an at-will employee). A year from now, it won't matter whether WF cut its ties with Jones on August 23 or November 23, but if WF terminates Jones without considering all potentially relevant information, it could matter a lot.
 
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If you were the legal rep of Wake in this case, would you recommend that the Athletic Department wait to let Jones go until AFTER the NYC investigation is complete? To protect yourself from a countersuit should Jones be cleared?

In other words, legally, does it behoove Wake to wait for the investigation and then let Jones go laying out specific reasons post investigation - did not act in the best interest of Wake Forest, did not contact Wake in a timely fashion to let them know, no longer able to successfully mentor young men, etc....

I feel like Wake's hesitation is less about trying to figure out if they can keep Jones on and more about when are the least liable to a wrongful firing suit from Jones should he cleared legally of any wrongful death charge.
 
what is the length of his current contract and how much is he owed?

I'm thinking one year and not a ton of money (compared with revenue from admitting a couple of extra early decision non-FA qualifiers)
 
TheTwinAndreBen said:
Urban Meyer ignored crimes for probably a decade. Our dude did something wrong and we suspended him indefinitely as soon as we found out. I think Jones is gone anyway but they two situations are night and day, esp when it comes to actions of the schools.

Let's also not forget our starting QB will serve the same suspension as Meyer for driving sober w beer in his trunk. Congrats on your football and blood money OSU, its literally all you have in flyover cuntry.
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If any documented "crimes" were ignored at OSU, I'd love to see the arrests, convictions, etc. Also, based on everything that has come out, Meyer certainly didn't "ignore" the DV allegations. Did he personally give it the attention it deserved (despite the AD, Title XI office, and police being aware and involved)? Probably not.

And yeah, Hinton should have received maybe a half game's suspension, in my opinoin. Maybe. Have been saying that from the beginning.

Anyways, back to our coach that killed another human. Sorry for the derail - just thought there was a comparison to be made, given the timing and board opinions.
 
“It’s not like he killed somebody” is probably the most common defense of spousal abusers and enablers.
 
tigerswood said:
If any documented "crimes" were ignored at OSU, I'd love to see the arrests, convictions, etc. Also, based on everything that has come out, Meyer certainly didn't "ignore" the DV allegations. Did he personally give it the attention it deserved (despite the AD, Title XI office, and police being aware and involved)? Probably not.

And yeah, Hinton should have received maybe a half game's suspension, in my opinoin. Maybe. Have been saying that from the beginning.

Anyways, back to our coach that killed another human. Sorry for the derail - just thought there was a comparison to be made, given the timing and board opinions.
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A comparison of their respective actions rather than the results of those respective actions would be far more relevant.
 
thatguy2016 said:
what is the length of his current contract and how much is he owed?

I'm thinking one year and not a ton of money (compared with revenue from admitting a couple of extra early decision non-FA qualifiers)
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Most assistants have one year deals. WF could pay him the amount left on his contract and send him on his way. That is essentially what WF is doing, assuming they don't reinstate him, by placing him on administrative leave while investigating the incident.

Just don't see the purpose of rushing to terminate Jones right now. While on leave, he does not represent WF; the DOBO has assumed Jones' recruiting duties. If there is any indication that suspending him for now, as opposed to announcing that he is fired right now, is hurting WF, there would be an argument to accelerate the investigation, but I don't see the harm to WF to let the NYC case proceed as Jones sits on the sidelines and let all of the facts come to light before making a call.
 
Pilchard said:
Most assistants have one year deals. WF could pay him the amount left on his contract and send him on his way. That is essentially what WF is doing, assuming they don't reinstate him, by placing him on administrative leave while investigating the incident.

Just don't see the purpose of rushing to terminate Jones right now. While on leave, he does not represent WF; the DOBO has assumed Jones' recruiting duties. If there is any indication that suspending him for now, as opposed to announcing that he is fired right now, is hurting WF, there would be an argument to accelerate the investigation, but I don't see the harm to WF to let the NYC case proceed as Jones sits on the sidelines and let all of the facts come to light before making a call.
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Well said. Not to mention it could bad for recruiting to abandon him without obvious just cause.
 
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Well let's play a fun little game for those that say we should wait out the facts. And maybe there is a legit one I'm not thinking of, but going through a 1000 scenarios of a guy punching a clearly belligerent and very drunk man whose head smashes the pavement such that he is clearly hurt and isn't get up real quickly - which scenario would justify the puncher leaving the scene???
 
saltydeac said:
Well let's play a fun little game for those that say we should wait out the facts. And maybe there is a legit one I'm not thinking of, but going through a 1000 scenarios of a guy punching a clearly belligerent and very drunk man whose head smashes the pavement such that he is clearly hurt and isn't get up real quickly - which scenario would justify the puncher leaving the scene???
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tigerswood said:
If any documented "crimes" were ignored at OSU, I'd love to see the arrests, convictions, etc. Also, based on everything that has come out, Meyer certainly didn't "ignore" the DV allegations. Did he personally give it the attention it deserved (despite the AD, Title XI office, and police being aware and involved)? Probably not.

And yeah, Hinton should have received maybe a half game's suspension, in my opinoin. Maybe. Have been saying that from the beginning.

Anyways, back to our coach that killed another human. Sorry for the derail - just thought there was a comparison to be made, given the timing and board opinions.
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Well, let's see Zach Smith was arrested in 2013 for DUI, and the Judge that reduced Zach Smith’s 2013 drunken driving charges is a 1968 Ohio State graduate & member of The Ohio State University President’s Club, but again I'm sure that Meyer or OSU knew NOTHING here either.

And again, you can't give this guy the benefit of the doubt without being willfully stupid. This is the same guy who supervised a Florida program that notched 31 arrests from '05 to 2010. 31 arrests. Do you think there were 31 meaningful suspensions there?

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/07/...orida-in-the-meyer-years.html?ref=sports&_r=0
 
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