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Has the men's basketball program now, finally, hit ROCK BOTTOM?

Have we finally arrived?

  • Total voters
    85
  • Poll closed .
Deaconblue said:
So in your opinion it was a bad or debatable decision to fire Jeff [name redacted]?
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Firing [name redacted] was so obviously necessary form about 3 games into his first season and it took Wellman 3.9 more years to let the man resign. So fine, firing him was a good decision, but Wellman even fucked that up by letting it go on for at least 2 seasons longer than even the most generous person would allow, that is the bad part and I still don't give Wellman a passing grade on that one.
 
birdman said:
Pretty excited that I am permitted to have my own opinion on these boards.

I'd just add the addendum that the occasional season in the shitter (i.e. 40 - 100 rank) is ok if it's not the norm. We fans can maintain satisfaction with the program through one or two bad season if the norm is top 25 and we dip into the top 60 for a year or two when players unexpectedly blow up and leave early or something like, so yeah extenuating circumstances. Four straight years, and really 8 straight years and actually like 12 out of 15 years outside the bragging rights zone and the fans (that are left) have every right to be pissed.

I don't lay our troubles at the feet of Prosser. I think he made one mistake, not preparing for the early departure of CP3, but he was on the road to recovering from that mistake when he suddenly died. I lay the root of all our troubles at the feet of Ron Wellman. I think Wellman has made one good decision for Wake Basketball (hiring Prosser) out of 5 times that he needed to make a big decision about Wake Basketball. This mess that we are in is entirely Wellman's fault. Well, ok maybe Jones killing a guy in New York is not Wellman's fault, but everything else is.
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Missed this the first time. I really don’t understand this take. Is it that hard to just say 7 out of the last 8 years (really 8 out of the last 9 based on your standards, I think).
 
thatguy2016 said:
yeah

that's why I've been referring to you as having said "met or exceeded expectations"

to claim that a 2-16, #118 season with an 11-game losing streak and several double-digit home losses "meets expectations" in year 2 of a coaching regime (especially when one considers the specifics in play here) is a stupid argument
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Yeah but you’ve been repeatedly saying “met or exceeded expectations” specifically regarding year 2. Which I never did.

I’m aware you think it’s a stupid position. But I’m not aware of a coherent argument that you’ve made against it.
 
RChildress107 said:
Missed this the first time. I really don’t understand this take. Is it that hard to just say 7 out of the last 8 years (really 8 out of the last 9 based on your standards, I think).
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Short hand has to be allowable sometimes. Statistically speaking 7 out of 8 is pretty close to 8 out 8.
 
RChildress107 said:
Yeah but you’ve been repeatedly saying “met or exceeded expectations” specifically regarding year 2. Which I never did.

I’m aware you think it’s a stupid position. But I’m not aware of a coherent argument that you’ve made against it.
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funny, you didn't seem upset with "met or exceeded" the first several times I said it; only after you made your "no season outside top 100" (paraphrasing now, in case that's not clear) proclamation has this become problematic for you

no one should need to explain why the 2016 WF men's basketball team underachieved
 
thatguy2016 said:
funny, you didn't seem upset with "met or exceeded" the first several times I said it; only after you made your "no season outside top 100" (paraphrasing now, in case that's not clear) proclamation has this become problematic for you

no one should need to explain why the 2016 WF men's basketball team underachieved
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Figured it was laziness or a mistake the first couple of times. You repeated that exact phrase often enough that I figured you were trying to make some sort of point.

And of course the 2016 team underachieved. The last Wake basketball team to overachieve was probably the 2003 squad.
 
birdman said:
Short hand has to be allowable sometimes. Statistically speaking 7 out of 8 is pretty close to 8 out 8.
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Not really.

Short hand is fine sometimes. But if you are already limping in a season where we finished 89th with a season where we finished 259th, you don’t get to use short hand to intentionally gloss over a top 40 season, thus lumping it in with that 259th finish.

That’s
 
RChildress107 said:
[/B]

Not really.

Short hand is fine sometimes. But if you are already limping in a season where we finished 89th with a season where we finished 259th, you don’t get to use short hand to intentionally gloss over a top 40 season, thus lumping it in with that 259th finish.

That’s
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For fucks sake, I'll edit the god dammed post. Just when I was starting to find you tolerable.

But in reality, your wrong about statistics. With only 8 samples, 7 out of 8 zeros is statistically indistinguishable from 8 out of 8 zeros.
 
It is unfortunate that Wake Forest basketball and the phrase
"rock-bottom" have been mentioned in the same sentence for the last eight years. How many more years?
 
deacsrus said:
It is unfortunate that Wake Forest basketball and the phrase
"rock-bottom" have been mentioned in the same sentence for the last eight years. How many more years?
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7 OUT OF 8 YEARS!!!!!!!!
 
birdman said:
For fucks sake, I'll edit the god dammed post. Just when I was starting to find you tolerable.

But in reality, your wrong about statistics. With only 8 samples, 7 out of 8 zeros is statistically indistinguishable from 8 out of 8 zeros.
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I’ll take your word for it that it was a genuine mistake.

Using that shorthand, one could also say that there were 4 straight years, really 9 straight, of shit before Manning showed up. That doesn’t really paint an accurate picture though.
 
thatguy2016 said:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/underachiever

one (such as a student) that fails to attain a predicted level of achievement or does not do as well as expected
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Yeah bird and I have already gone through the “as predicted” vs “up to standards” distinction. While I think birdman was truly using the “as predicted” definition of met expectations, I think most other posters mean something along the lines of “as thought capable of.” That is certainly how the word excepted is being used in the definition you provided.

I have consistently pushed back on using that as a measuring stick for evaluating a program or coach. Instead I’ve laid out standards I expect the program to meet and year by year standards I expected our new coach to meet.

It’s rare for a college basketball team to perform as well as its fans think it is capable of. That’s partly due to the nature of fan hood and partly due to the nature of 18-22 year old basketball players. It is frequently the case that a team underacheives but exceeds the expectations (or standards if you prefer) for a coach or program.
 
RChildress107 said:
I’ll take your word for it that it was a genuine mistake.

Using that shorthand, one could also say that there were 4 straight years, really 9 straight, of shit before Manning showed up. That doesn’t really paint an accurate picture though.
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Actually I take that back. You followed up “8 straight” with “12 of 15” “outside the bragging rights zone.” Presumably the 3 of 15 would be 04, 05, and 09, meaning you lumped in 16-17 with the outside the top-40 seasons intentionally, not from the use of shorthand.
 
RChildress107 said:
Actually I take that back. You followed up “8 straight” with “12 of 15” “outside the bragging rights zone.” Presumably the 3 of 15 would be 04, 05, and 09, meaning you lumped in 16-17 with the outside the top-40 seasons intentionally, not from the use of shorthand.
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Serious question: What the fuck is your problem?
 
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