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Down Goes Silent Sam

2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
How am I hating on PC? I'm the one trying to add in the additional atrocities of our collective past such as the treatment of Native Americans and Japanese Americans; you are the one wanting to hold Confederate monuments to a higher standard.

I am reading what people are saying: all Confederate monuments should come down given what Wikipedia says they stand for, and Silent Sam in particular should have come down given the contents of a speech given when it was put up. I'm saying that Silent Sam, the particular statue itself, doesn't say anything different than plenty of other historical monuments: it is a monument honoring the lives of young people who gave up their normal lives to go fight in a war that in hindsight we don't agree with.

I agree that certain Confederate symbols should come down. But, if I'm ranking the Confederate symbols that need to come down, Silent Sam wasn't high on the list. I'd be much more concerned with the massive like 50' by 20' Confederate flags that people have put up on huge poles next to highways, like the one on 95 near Wilson or the one on 321 near Maiden. I just think these protest efforts are really misdirected at times.
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Some rube putting up a flag by the interstate just says "Hey everybody! A racist asshole owns this land!". A statue of General Lee beside a courthouse implies that the government operating out of that courthouse venerates Lee and agrees with what he stood for.
 
Deacon923 said:
Some rube putting up a flag by the interstate just says "Hey everybody! A racist asshole owns this land!". A statue of General Lee beside a courthouse implies that the government operating out of that courthouse venerates Lee and agrees with what he stood for.
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Right. Silent Sam's location on the upper quad of the state's flagship university carries more of the state's imprimatur than a flag on private property.
 
Deacon923 said:
Some rube putting up a flag by the interstate just says "Hey everybody! A racist asshole owns this land!". A statue of General Lee beside a courthouse implies that the government operating out of that courthouse venerates Lee and agrees with what he stood for.
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Yep. This.
 
Deacon923 said:
Some rube putting up a flag by the interstate just says "Hey everybody! A racist asshole owns this land!". A statue of General Lee beside a courthouse implies that the government operating out of that courthouse venerates Lee and agrees with what he stood for.
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IamThunderbolt said:
Yep. This.
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So a Robert E. Lee statue means that the local government believes that the state is governed by the state, like it says in the US Constitution ?
 
BiffTannen said:
So a Robert E. Lee statue means that the local government believes that the state is governed by the state, like it says in the US Constitution ?
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if you think that's what a Lee statue means, whether now or when it was erected in 1913, you're not going to add much to this conversation.
 
Oh how I love being talked down to ! I guess you'll just have to wait another 50 years till people like me are all dead.
 
BiffTannen said:
Oh how I love being talked down to ! I guess you'll just have to wait another 50 years till people like me are all dead.
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if you want to educate yourself there are plenty of sources. You're usually a smart poster so I'm not sure if you're trolling. http://origins.osu.edu/article/what-we-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-confederate-monuments

Here's a good piece with some history behind Confederate monuments in New Orleans: https://thinkprogress.org/new-orleans-fight-confederate-monuments-1596a7d2618d/

A federal judge also gave New Orleans permission on Wednesday to take down a fourth monument, which Mayor Mitch Landrieu called the “most offensive” of all. The granite obelisk commemorates the battle of Liberty Place, a white supremacist uprising against New Orleans’ briefly biracial government during Reconstruction. Two years after the Crescent City White League’s attack on white and black police officers, the 1876 election of Rutherford B. Hayes brought Reconstruction-era racial equality efforts crashing down and allowed southern states to enact segregation and racial terror.

In 1932, an inscription was added to the obelisk explicitly celebrating the triumph of “white supremacy” over the “carpetbag government.” The inscription read:

United States troops took over the state government and reinstated the usurpers but the national election in November 1876 recognized white supremacy and gave us our state. McEnery and Penn, having been elected governor and lieutenant governor by the white people, were duly installed by the overthrow of the carpetbag government, ousting the usurpers Gov. Kellogg (white) and Lt. Gov. Antoine (colored).

The monument stood in the middle of downtown New Orleans until 1989, when it was removed for street construction.
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Junebug said:
Maybe so, but much less so than in a town square.
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The upper quad of a state flagship university is essentially a town square. What's located in that space is much more representative of the state's values than what is located in the central spaces of most towns.
 
BiffTannen said:
So fuck you. You and RJ and other people like you can stay the fuck out of the South, where you chose to attend college. There's no lack of fatass Midwesterners eager to trade in horrible weather and sausages for economic growth and a life outdoors in the South. No one will miss you here.
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Triggered.

Born and raised in Winston-Salem. Beautiful place as are Boone and Wilmington and everywhere in between. Great weather, food, college basketball. And not everyone, but a great many fat ass dumb fuck pork eating Pepsi swilling idiots who think their “identity” in the 21st fucking century is defined by some backwoods no-eduction Southun traditions, and who spew it all over th place to anyone who will listen like it’s bestowed upon them as a birthright from god. It’s ridiculous, grow up.
 
I can't believe I have to explain this to you. The UNC-Chapel Hill campus is larger and more populated than most towns in NC. A university campus definitely functions as a town in itself. Have you even been on a university campus recently?

I'm not sure why you would think the town square of Carrboro (population 19,582) is more prominent or representative of the state's values than the quad at UNC (30k students, about 12,600 staff and faculty) especially considering the latter is governed by people selected and/or approved by the state government.
 
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BiffTannen said:
So a Robert E. Lee statue means that the local government believes that the state is governed by the state, like it says in the US Constitution ?
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Should the message we send to Black citizens as they enter their seat of government/place where justice is determined be one that says the powers that be venerate a man who took up arms to ensure that those that look like them would have their humanity denied and deemed property?
 
Junebug said:
Like most Americans
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I think you grossly underestimate the role universities play. For example, UNC is the largest employer in the state of NC. The largest employer in many states is a university. Plenty of people work at or visit UNC hospitals, play at the golf course, or God forbid attend sporting events on campus.

You're trying to defend a nonsense argument by making it personal. Either give up or try to make an actual case for yourself.

Explain how the town square in Siler City is more representative of the state's values than the public university which is the largest employer in the state and run by the state. Or just keep digging deeper by taking shots at me because I have a job you don't respect.
 
I was at ND for the prior Wake game. That one was much worse. ND definitely functions as a town within itself.
 
Junebug said:
But it’s not your country anymore, due, not to your actions, but to the actions of your political leaders. It would be traitorous, at that point, to your state/new country to support your old one.

It is one thing to claim that the southern political leaders who effected secession were traitors. It is another to claim that all southerners, or even all southern footsoldiers, were.
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That is all wrong because unilateral state level secession isn't possible. The Civil War was fought to preserve the Union, not reunify it. The attempt to unilaterally secede, without congressional approval, was the traitorous act.
 
IamThunderbolt said:
Should the message we send to Black citizens as they enter their seat of government/place where justice is determined be one that says the powers that be venerate a man who took up arms to ensure that those that look like them would have their humanity denied and deemed property?
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What a fucking moral hack you are..that’s slipshod virtue signaling horseyshite if ever was served.

Do feel better. You should. You just took a dump right on your keypad
 
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