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The New Socialists

Yes, if you were familiar with the DSA you would know that.

1. I don't think capitalism should be completely "abolished" or even that it could be.

2. I believe in electoralism

3. I believe that people with pro-life religious beliefs should be eligible for leadership positions within DSA (Elizabeth Bruenig), and politicians with pro life religious beliefs should be eligible for DSA endorsements (Heath Mello)

4. I believe 3rd party votes are currently harmful to socialist goals.
Oh I'm not disputing that you are, I'm just saying that it shows how naive it is that you ever believe you would have some sort of governing coalition in the United States that agrees with your objectives when you're one of the more conservative members.
 
which candidate (and which vision) am i voting for? the MDMH "i don't hate capitalism but let's let religious nuts in office if they're socialist" or tuffalo's "blood on streets, all or nothing" version?
Religious nuts like Tim Kaine?
 
which candidate (and which vision) am i voting for? the MDMH "i don't hate capitalism but let's let religious nuts in office if they're socialist" or tuffalo's "blood on streets, all or nothing" version?

what about a vision where we democratically decide? And I think you are purposefully misconstruing or simplifying their positions to make it seem like a binary, when its not.
 
Oh I'm not disputing that you are, I'm just saying that it shows how naive it is that you ever believe you would have some sort of governing coalition in the United States that agrees with your objectives when you're one of the more conservative members.

Liberals who just got worked because of a centrist terrible candidate, don't have much right to call others naive. Tell me more about how Keith fucking Ellison is too progressive for you.
 
Liberals who just got worked because of a centrist terrible candidate, don't have much right to call others naive. Tell me more about how Keith fucking Ellison is too progressive for you.
The one who beat your preferred candidate in the primary by millions of votes?
 
which candidate (and which vision) am i voting for? the MDMH "i don't hate capitalism but let's let religious nuts in office if they're socialist" or tuffalo's "blood on streets, all or nothing" version?

Where do you get that I'm in favor of blood on the streets?
 
Is Tim Kaine is pro-life -- wanting to overturn Roe v. Wade and make abortion illegal? Or is Tim Kaine pro-choice and personally against abortion? And which type would you pal around with in the DSA?
Now who's being disengenious?

There is (should be) plenty of room on the left for personal religious beliefs, as long as they aren't politicized to infringe upon the rights and liberty of others. It's really only conservative Christian evangelicals who want to overturn roe v wade.
 
please



perhaps i'm mis-rembering some of your other posts elsewhere and/or confusing you with another poster

I am definitely a reformist and not a revolutionary (although we will have to overthrow our own reforms once we complete them, the dialectic is a bitch)
 

I'm not interested in rehashing that debate. Regardless of what you think about the DNC shenanigans, you can make a separate argument that the process as a whole is not democratic. So, yes, Chris can brag all he wants that his candidate won. It doesn't mean that was the will of the people, or that it didn't prove to be a disastrous choice.
 
Now who's being disengenious?

There is (should be) plenty of room on the left for personal religious beliefs, as long as they aren't politicized to infringe upon the rights and liberty of others. It's really only conservative Christian evangelicals who want to overturn roe v wade.

I asked you a simple question -- in your #3, it is not clear if you were talking about people who were Wrangors. Who cares if someone is personally pro-life if they are otherwise pro-choice and pro-Roe? Not really going out on a limb there, sonny.
 
I'm not interested in rehashing that debate. Regardless of what you think about the DNC shenanigans, you can make a separate argument that the process as a whole is not democratic. So, yes, Chris can brag all he wants that his candidate won. It doesn't mean that was the will of the people, or that it didn't prove to be a disastrous choice.
Yes the process wasn't Democratic. Sanders benefited greatly from a caucus system where he would have before much worse if all of the states had Democratic primaries. See Washington State and Nebraska for examples. Suggesting the results weren't the will of the people is straight up delusional.
 
Yes the process wasn't Democratic. Sanders benefited greatly from a caucus system where he would have before much worse if all of the states had Democratic primaries. See Washington State and Nebraska for examples.

The election was about as clear cut a rejection of centrism as we've seen in my lifetime. Good luck running Joe Biden.
 
what about a vision where we democratically decide? And I think you are purposefully misconstruing or simplifying their positions to make it seem like a binary, when its not.

i don't think it's a binary choice at all, just a wider spectrum. and i'm not sure i trust democracy all that much if it produces administrations and parties like Trump and the GOP
 
The election was about as clear cut a rejection of centrism as we've seen in my lifetime. Good luck running Joe Biden.
Yet this progressive wave only has a handful of candidates that are likely going to win office at the national level 2 years later.
 
and i'm not sure i trust democracy all that much if it produces administrations and parties like Trump and the GOP

We don't live in a democracy. Do you think DSA has a vision that is more or less democratic than our current system? What do you view as having produced Trump and the GOP? Why would you continue putting your faith in a democratic party that has no backbone, has continuously sold out the working class to the rich, and whose entire momentum is now being driven by a progressive caucus? Again, I think we disagree on exactly what caused Trump.
 
Yes the process wasn't Democratic. Sanders benefited greatly from a caucus system where he would have before much worse if all of the states had Democratic primaries. See Washington State and Nebraska for examples. Suggesting the results weren't the will of the people is straight up delusional.

The people weren't happy with any of the candidates.
 
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