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The New Socialists

But I wish they spent a little more time thinking through the policy itself, especially when it would represent a fundamental shift in a complex system, instead of just sorta underpants gnoming it and then acting indignant when anyone dare to question them.

very much agree with this. a few thoughts:

1. it's much easier to be against something than for something; further, it's much easier to build consensus among different groups around being against a bad thing

2. I think the left has spent so much of its post-Stalin playing defense and spending its energy speaking truth to power that it will require a pretty significant shift in mode of operation to begin articulating many of its policy proposals in actionable terms

3. I also believe people on the left need to take more seriously the technical aspects of governance -- there is an abundance of passion and moral imagination, but a deficit in pure political skill among the (over-generalized) left, in my estimation
 
The boats are only affordable if we can use cheap unskilled labor to assemble them and sell them at retail outlets.
 
does everyone agree that not everyone needs their own boat in the rising tide scenario
 
I fear any real momentum for socialist politics is going to be undermined by the socialists themselves.

1 The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.

2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.

[...]
4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

6 The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.

7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.

[...]
9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
 
does everyone agree that not everyone needs their own boat in the rising tide scenario

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i mean that boat carried a chicken, a girl and a demigod and barely broke a sweat
 
Maui: thread participants
Moana: ph’s super analogy
 
No, because society is still dependent on the water with its rising tides still exists. The M boys have made it clear that keeping capitalism just isn't going to work for them.

tilt, good post. I fear any real momentum for socialist politics is going to be undermined by the socialists themselves.

Im saying that the rising tides is bullshit and capitalists weaponize it to say it’s the only way. Capitalism will literally destroy the earth through climate change. The upper class is dependent on it because it lifts their boat. The lower class is already dying.

At the risk of being accused of whitesplaining MLK again, he said it wasn’t the responsibility of the oppressed to have the perfect plan for overthrowing their oppressor. That’s just an excuse to push off and delay justice.
 
I think mdmh believes more in capitalism than I do. He hasn’t said we should get rid of it.
 
very much agree with this. a few thoughts:

1. it's much easier to be against something than for something; further, it's much easier to build consensus among different groups around being against a bad thing

2. I think the left has spent so much of its post-Stalin playing defense and spending its energy speaking truth to power that it will require a pretty significant shift in mode of operation to begin articulating many of its policy proposals in actionable terms

3. I also believe people on the left need to take more seriously the technical aspects of governance -- there is an abundance of passion and moral imagination, but a deficit in pure political skill among the (over-generalized) left, in my estimation

Im not necessarily disagreeing with you, but isn’t this too close to rule by technocracy? Can’t we empower working class people to be democratic and provide solutions that aren’t funded by a fucking think tank?

That isn’t to say we don’t need accountants or lawyers or other skills, but smart educated people have been fucking everything up. I don’t want to be governed by a bunch of Harvard assholes.
 
MHBD now full-on OWG mode clamoring for the 'common sense' governance of Joe Six Pack
 
Rereading your post, i don’t think you were saying technocrats will solve everything, but the sentiment seemed to be calling for highly skilled educated people rather than working class people.
 
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