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2019 US News Rankings - Wake #27

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Rafi

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The 2019 US News and World Report rankings are out. Wake Forest is ranked #27 in national universities, #13 for undergraduate teaching, and #24 for best value.
 
Rafi said:
The 2019 US News and World Report rankings are out. Wake Forest is ranked #27 in national universities, #13 for undergraduate teaching, and #24 for best value.
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And our stagnation under Hatch continues. I would at least expect to be in the top 10 in undergraduate teaching. As to overall, do we need to broaden (as to fields of study) and improve our graduate programs? What is holding us back?
 
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Brangus said:
And our stagnation under Hatch continues. I would at least expect to 10 in undergraduate teaching. As to overall, do we need to broaden (as to fields of study) and improve our graduate programs? What is holding us back?
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You serious clark? This isn't like basketball.
 
DeacDiggler said:
You serious clark? This isn't like basketball.
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We have been at 27, give or take a spot, for the entire 21st century. I'm just asking what would it take for Wake to overtake some of the schools ranked ahead? Top 20 is not crazy for Wake. Top 15....maybe not.
 
Wall Street Journal has WFU at 62. https://www.wsj.com/articles/explore-the-full-wsj-the-college-rankings-1536187754?mod=ig_collegerankings2019 They put a heavy weighting on graduate outcomes - i.e. the salaries graduates earn vs. the debt they accrue. WFU ranks 71st in outcomes, well behind UNC and a lot of our other competitors. The US News rankings are based on a lot of very subjective BS factors, i'd rather Hatch and Co. focus on changes that get better outcomes for students than worry about the junk that goes into the US News.
 
Deacon923 said:
Wall Street Journal has WFU at 62. https://www.wsj.com/articles/explore-the-full-wsj-the-college-rankings-1536187754?mod=ig_collegerankings2019 They put a heavy weighting on graduate outcomes - i.e. the salaries graduates earn vs. the debt they accrue. WFU ranks 71st in outcomes, well behind UNC and a lot of our other competitors. The US News rankings are based on a lot of very subjective BS factors, i'd rather Hatch and Co. focus on changes that get better outcomes for students than worry about the junk that goes into the US News.
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OK like...(I'm not being a smart ass, but what is the answer?) A better career services department and an administration that is less "education industry snobby/wonky" and more connected to the actual business world? Emphasis on more practical majors and better graduate programs?
 
Brangus said:
And our stagnation under Hatch continues. I would at least expect to be in the top 10 in undergraduate teaching. As to overall, do we need to broaden (as to fields of study) and improve our graduate programs? What is holding us back?
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The highest we have ever been ranked was under Dr. Hatch, when we were #23 in the 2014 report.
 
Deacon923 said:
Wall Street Journal has WFU at 62. https://www.wsj.com/articles/explore-the-full-wsj-the-college-rankings-1536187754?mod=ig_collegerankings2019 They put a heavy weighting on graduate outcomes - i.e. the salaries graduates earn vs. the debt they accrue. WFU ranks 71st in outcomes, well behind UNC and a lot of our other competitors. The US News rankings are based on a lot of very subjective BS factors, i'd rather Hatch and Co. focus on changes that get better outcomes for students than worry about the junk that goes into the US News.
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I get this argument. The counter argument is that the US News rankings are by far the most prestigious, and they are the rankings that most influence the decisions of applicants. So improvement in the US News rankings would result in better applicants, which is the key to having an outstanding university.
 
06deacon said:
Like lower tuition
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Of the top 29 universities, 26 are private institutions. Of those, Wake is the 17th most expensive. This is why we are actually higher in best value than we are overall.

With that said, I agree that one way to potentially move up the list would be to slow tuition increases compared to peer institutions. Rice and Vandy have done this to some degree, and it has been successful. Wash U has not, and they have dropped from top 10 to #19 this year.
 
Rafi said:
I get this argument. The counter argument is that the US News rankings are by far the most prestigious, and they are the rankings that most influence the decisions of applicants. So improvement in the US News rankings would result in better applicants, which is the key to having an outstanding university.
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Ugh. If better applicants is the key, what’s the purpose of the university? It’s just laundering advantage.
 
PhDeac said:
Ugh. If better applicants is the key, what’s the purpose of the university? It’s just laundering advantage.
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What an odd statement. Better applicants means more diverse applicants, lower SES students with great applications, etc. Remember, Wake doesn’t have an SAT requirement, so great applicants has little to do with test scores.
 
Rafi said:
What an odd statement. Better applicants means more diverse applicants, lower SES students with great applications, etc. Remember, Wake doesn’t have an SAT requirement, so great applicants has little to do with test scores.
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Interesting thing is that before the SAT change, Wake's acceptance rate was in the 40%s. Now it is at 27% yet no movement in the rankings...
 
I sorta like how Rafi just disregarded the WSJ rankings out of hand, and started applying arguments on how to better that ranking to the US News ranking.

That's some high level spin right there.
 
To take a larger view, most ACC schools are top 100. Then there is Louisville, tied at #171 with Ball State, University of Houston, Illinois State University, Rowan University (NJ) and Ohio University.
 
Rafi said:
What an odd statement. Better applicants means more diverse applicants, lower SES students with great applications, etc. Remember, Wake doesn’t have an SAT requirement, so great applicants has little to do with test scores.
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How does getting rid of the need-blind application process lead to more lower SES students?

Average cost drives diversity, not rankings.
 
06deacon said:
Like lower tuition
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Rafi said:
Of the top 29 universities, 26 are private institutions. Of those, Wake is the 17th most expensive. This is why we are actually higher in best value than we are overall.

With that said, I agree that one way to potentially move up the list would be to slow tuition increases compared to peer institutions. Rice and Vandy have done this to some degree, and it has been successful. Wash U has not, and they have dropped from top 10 to #19 this year.
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I'd be curious to see how we rank in average undergraduate debt compared with those schools, especially compared against median salary.
 
DistrictDeacon said:
How does getting rid of the need-blind application process lead to more lower SES students?

Average cost drives diversity, not rankings.
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I think lower cost increases the applicant pool, which can result in both increased diversity and increased selectivity, both of which can eventually be reflected in better rankings.
 
RedSoxFaithful said:
I sorta like how Rafi just disregarded the WSJ rankings out of hand, and started applying arguments on how to better that ranking to the US News ranking.
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I don’t really understand what this means (did RJ write that for you?), but I didn’t ignore the WSJ rankings thread. I thought it was interesting but it’s hard to put as much emphasis on new rankings because there aren’t years of data and trends and they aren’t nearly as important to applicants as the US News rankings.
 
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