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Democrats : 3 Rungs Lower Than Whale Shit

ConnorEl said:
"access to affordable healthcare" is not a bullshit idea.


And it's better than the status quo. Presently there is much that is needed and not accessible or affordable wrt health care.
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"Affordable" is vague and so subjective as to be meaningless in a political context. In our current state, politicians conflate healthcare with health insurance, which is totally wrong. As it stands, hardly anyone in our country has "affordable" health care, yet ignorant people generally assume, due to the ACA, that most everyone has it. What many people have is access to a hardly affordable plan, that they definitely cant afford to use.

The vast majority of Americans with an "affordable" health insurance plan would be bankrupted by a catastrophic injury or deadly diagnosis. There are so many people in this country being charged hundreds of thousands of dollars to watch their children and loved ones die. Victims of mass shootings, such as the one in Las Vegas, were bankrupted by medical bills. We have an epidemic of people killing themselves by rationing their insulin. Somehow in all of the talk about pragmaticism and common sense, these situations are deemed acceptable.

So you say "Democrats cant change this with Republicans in charge". Sure, thats true - but that means you admit that conservatives - Democrat or Republican, who prevent progress, such as McCain no or Ben Sasse, are cruel people, who don't deserve good faith in negotiation. A political view, Democratic or Republican, that allows for so many people, Americans, to die unnecessarily is a direct condemnation of character.
 
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It’s still not a bullshit idea.


Of course it’s just an idea, not a plan.
 
ConnorEl said:
It’s still not a bullshit idea.


Of course it’s just an idea, not a plan.
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Well sure, to someone with no money, "affordable health care" = free and accessable, and virtually no one can "afford" 10s of thousands of dollars in hospital bills, and working people certainly can't "afford" to have their wages garnished and credit ruined by medical bill collectors. So yeah, "affordable" health care is a great idea - but there is no market based subsidy solution, or pay at the point of care solution, thats going to deliver "affordable" care, so we're really just parsing terms for no reason.
 
I’m not parsing terms.

Access to affordable healthcare for everyone is a desirable goal.
 
ConnorEl said:
I’m not parsing terms.

Access to affordable healthcare for everyone is a desirable goal.
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Seems as though you're clinging to the term "affordable" when there are more clearly worded alternatives. Being real here, the word affordable is only being used as a way to allay the fears of asshole conservatives who don't believe anyone deserves *free* healthcare - "affordable" means everyone pays their fair share.
 
I didn’t bring the term “affordable” into this conversation.


It’s not an irrelevant consideration.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Well sure, to someone with no money, "affordable health care" = free and accessable, and virtually no one can "afford" 10s of thousands of dollars in hospital bills, and working people certainly can't "afford" to have their wages garnished and credit ruined by medical bill collectors. So yeah, "affordable" health care is a great idea - but there is no market based subsidy solution, or pay at the point of care solution, thats going to deliver "affordable" care, so we're really just parsing terms for no reason.
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In no western country is healthcare "free". Employees and employers in Germany, UK, Australia, etc., pay for their coverage via taxes.
 
ConnorEl said:
I didn’t bring the term “affordable” into this conversation.


It’s not an irrelevant consideration.
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You're right, MHB is the one who brought it up, as the meaningless centrist canard it is. You're just defending the term for some reason. I mean help me out, is there an alternative proposal titled "Unnaffordable Health Care" that you oppose ? No. The Republicans also call their bullshit tax cut healthcare plan "affordable". "Affordable" is just a political football getting kicked around while people die.
 
It’s not a meaningless concept.


A huge part of our present problems is a lack of access to decent healthcare that is affordable for many who need it.


You seem to understand this.
 
ConnorEl said:
It’s not a meaningless concept.


A huge part of our present problems is a lack of access to decent healthcare that is affordable for many who need it.


You seem to understand this.
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lol. Access to health care and access to "affordable" health care are the same thing. Hell, I have "access" to the Ferrari dealership, but not a Ferrari. If healthcare isn't affordable, then you don't actually have access to it. Clinging to that buzzword only harms the cause, by allowing for conservatives and private health care interests to interpret "affordable" it in a conservative, limiting fashion.
 
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So expensive sports cars aren’t affordable for you, or many others.

But that’s not a problem I think we need to solve collectively.


Healthcare? Yeah, that needs work.
 
TuffaloDeac10 said:
My objection is specifically to the slogan
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Whether we like it or not, America is a nation of slogans. Half of America would have conniptions if we had a "healthcare tax" even if it saved them thousands of dollars per year. The word "tax" would kill the concept.
 
PhDeac said:
Definitely. But if the language is about "right" to health care, expect people who don't think it should be free to co-opt the message.
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There's literally no language you could use that wouldn't, and isn't already being co-opted, "access" and "affordable" for instance. You couldnt ever be conservative enough with the rhetoric to get reasonable debate.
 
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