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Democrats : 3 Rungs Lower Than Whale Shit

ChrisL68 said:
I do know that we do actually need police officers since I want to protect the rights of capital and the status quo, rather than think any harder about how that ideology has backfired over the last 50 years.
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FIFY
 
I would also give judges more leeway and cut out mandatory minimums and look for ways to rehabilitate and parole people.
 
You have gone so far down your ideological rabbit hole that having a meaningful conversation with you is pointless. Most people grow out of this type of thinking in their sophomore year of college.
 
what kind of logical fallacy is it when you keep dismissing someone's point of view as down an "ideological rabbit hole" rather than engaging in debate?

You conveniently ignored the Biden/Harris as prospective candidates, that someone to your ideological left voted for Blue Lives Matter bills, that Obama didn't do dick to address police violence or police militarization, etc. I don't care if you don't keep up with KC politics. I'm not expecting you to. But maybe you have heard of Jason Kander. Do you think his answer is appropriate?
 
Most of our incarceration issues are at the state level, so I am not really sure what a President could do to address that. Especially one who had a Pub congress during most of his term that had no desire to address this issue.

Do I think more cameras in high crime areas is a bad idea? No. Do you think that somebody who kills or commits an armed robbery should be put in jail?
 
Care to expand on that non-answer that most issues are at the state level?
 
MHBDemon said:
Care to expand on that non-answer that most issues are at the state level?
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That over 90% of the people incarcerated in this country are incarcerated at the state and local level?
 

Saying Dems would stand for this today is lazy, stupid and dishonest. It's exactly like RWers do about immigration. Rather than telling the truth that undocumented people commit less than half the crimes per capita of native born criminals, they use an outlier event to create racism and hatred of immigrants.

Using this to paint Dems (who have since outlawed the death penalty in several states) as still supporting the above law is like saying because Wake had no blacks in frats and sororities in 1966, all students still believe in that kind of bigotry. Or to say that because there were no black basketball players in the SEC in 1966, the SEC would still prefer to have no black ballplayers.

But keep using tired, lame concepts like saying things haven't changed, it puts you right alongside your buddies in Charlotte who were carrying tiki torches while they screamed "blood soil" and "white power".
 
ChrisL68 said:
Most of our incarceration issues are at the state level, so I am not really sure what a President could do to address that. Especially one who had a Pub congress during most of his term that had no desire to address this issue.

Do I think more cameras in high crime areas is a bad idea? No. Do you think that somebody who kills or commits an armed robbery should be put in jail?
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Chris add to this crime bills, etc., require a 60 vote majority in the Senate to pass.

Almost all non-far RWers believe prison reform is critical. Almost all on the left agree that non-violent criminals shouldn't be in jail.
 
RJKarl said:
Saying Dems would stand for this today is lazy, stupid and dishonest. It's exactly like RWers do about immigration. Rather than telling the truth that undocumented people commit less than half the crimes per capita of native born criminals, they use an outlier event to create racism and hatred of immigrants.

Using this to paint Dems (who have since outlawed the death penalty in several states) as still supporting the above law is like saying because Wake had no blacks in frats and sororities in 1966, all students still believe in that kind of bigotry. Or to say that because there were no black basketball players in the SEC in 1966, the SEC would still prefer to have no black ballplayers.

But keep using tired, lame concepts like saying things haven't changed, it puts you right alongside your buddies in Charlotte who were carrying tiki torches while they screamed "blood soil" and "white power".
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This is such a fucking horrible post it’s not even worth engaging.
 
Can someone clarify the dumbass logic that backs up the claim that liberals in general support the death penalty?
 
RJKarl said:
Almost all on the left agree that non-violent criminals shouldn't be in jail.
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Link?

Chris is focusing on how criminal justice system is administered so that we can ignore the massive impact of federal legislation, of the Sentencing Commission, the impact of the Clinton/Biden duo, lobbying of groups like ALEC, both parties participation in valorizing officers as a way to deny criticism. Most importantly you want to ignore that the expansion of the carceral state is directly linked to white supremacy and capital.

It’s one thing to say you believe in reform. It’s another thing to actually fucking provide any answers as to how we achieve reform while fighting the power of capital, when reform has categorically failed. The original sentencing guidelines from the Commission were intended as a reform to lessen incarceration, but it did the opposite.
 
Liquid Karma said:
Can someone clarify the dumbass logic that backs up the claim that liberals in general support the death penalty?
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Im not necessarily saying “liberals explicitly support the death penalty.” I’m saying liberals drove the expansion of the carceral state, and don’t have a correct analysis on how to fix it. It’s all right there in the 94 crime bill where the crimes that could receive death penalty went from 4 to 66.
 
At our current pace, it will take until 2166 to get to 1970 levels of incarceration. So it certainly seems that you brainiacs should provide some better answers than lukewarm “i think we should decriminalize drugs” or “i believe in sentencing reform” takes.
 
MHBDemon said:
At our current pace, it will take until 2166 to get to 1970 levels of incarceration. So it certainly seems that you brainiacs should provide some better answers than lukewarm “i think we should decriminalize drugs” or “i believe in sentencing reform” takes.
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Lol
 
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MHBDemon said:
This is such a fucking horrible post it’s not even worth engaging.
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I didn't say you are a white supremacist. What I said was you TACTICS are same.

The reason you won't "engage" that post is because, if you are honest, you know I'm right.
 
MHBDemon said:
Im not necessarily saying “liberals explicitly support the death penalty.” I’m saying liberals drove the expansion of the carceral state, and don’t have a correct analysis on how to fix it. It’s all right there in the 94 crime bill where the crimes that could receive death penalty went from 4 to 66.
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That's EXACTLY what you said. But you refuse to be honest.

Dems are at the forefront of prison reform, but you don't count them.

BTW, as to your premise "It’s another thing to actually fucking provide any answers as to how we achieve reform while fighting the power of capital" -I have provided ideas, but you reject EVERY idea if it isn't exactly what you want it to be. This is the #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 , etc., problem the board with you and MHMD.

Maybe if occasionally either of you said, "OK, that's not all I want, but maybe it will lead us there", people would accept you more. I know you don't want hear this, because you know so much that I and others do, but the reality is no political movement ever succeeded that drove people away who agreed with them 60-90% of the time. That's what you are doing.
 
MHBDemon said:
Pretty fucking telling on here that liberals would rather chastise leftists than centrists itching for more police.
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If the issue at hand is purely more police vs. less police, I'm for less police. But in today's society, nothing is ever about just one issue.
 
RJKarl said:
That's EXACTLY what you said. But you refuse to be honest.

Dems are at the forefront of prison reform, but you don't count them.

BTW, as to your premise "It’s another thing to actually fucking provide any answers as to how we achieve reform while fighting the power of capital" -I have provided ideas, but you reject EVERY idea if it isn't exactly what you want it to be. This is the #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 , etc., problem the board with you and MHMD.

Maybe if occasionally either of you said, "OK, that's not all I want, but maybe it will lead us there", people would accept you more. I know you don't want hear this, because you know so much that I and others do, but the reality is no political movement ever succeeded that drove people away who agreed with them 60-90% of the time. That's what you are doing.
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Provide an argument. You havent.
 
AsesinoDeTortugas said:
If the issue at hand is purely more police vs. less police, I'm for less police. But in today's society, nothing is ever about just one issue.
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It's also not a simplistic as some make it.

Should there be more cops in some places like gang-ridden places in Chicago? Possibly.
Should there be more cops here in Huntington Beach? Probably not, we have an incredibly low crime rate.

Should there be private jails? Absolutely not.
Should there be mandatory minimum sentences? Nope, with the possible exception of acts of violence.

Should there be 3 Strikes for non-violent acts? No way.

If jails are about rehabilitation as well as punishment, then schooling and training programs should be mandatory for everyone.
 
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