Strickland33
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This isn’t how tanking works, Mitch et al
Official 2018-2019 Charlotte Hornets Thread - Lose Kemba and All Fans
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PhDeac
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Seriously. OKC just got 6 1st round draft picks over the weekend. The Hornets are just playing the lottery.
Pilchard
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Yep. Realize the Clippers had no leverage because they had to make the trade to get Kawhi, but man, OKC received a haul for two years (player option for year #3) of Paul George:
2021 Miami (unprotected)
2022 LAC (unprotected)
2023 Miami (top 14 prot.)
2023 pick swap
2024 LAC (unprotected)
2025 pick swap
2026 LAC (unprotected)
Plus 2018 1st round Shai Gilgeous-Alexander who had a solid rookie year, and Gallanari who averaged 20 ppg, and who OKC can flip for more picks or younger talent.
Buttermaker
Well-known member
THAT is how you deal superstars.
The picks OKC got from the Clippers are going to be crap. It would be shocking if any of those would be as high as #20. Most likely they will be #25 or so. Those are crap picks for a superstar. Just because you get a bigger load of crap make it any less crap.
Miami's are going to be lottery adjacent.
It'll be a crapshoot for any of those picks to net a star.
Galinari is a rental for a year.
The #1 rule in the NBA is if you trade a current superstar you will get far less than his value in return.
Miami's are going to be lottery adjacent.
It'll be a crapshoot for any of those picks to net a star.
Galinari is a rental for a year.
The #1 rule in the NBA is if you trade a current superstar you will get far less than his value in return.
CDeacMan
Ishmael Smith
I don’t think you can say the picks starting in 2023 definitely won’t be in lottery. Who knows where the Clips will be by then
deac29
Steve Lepore
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Exactly. By 24-26, Kwahi and George are likely gone and/or greatly diminished
If Jerry West is still around, he'll make sure of that. But OKC betting their future on that versus keeping a super star is not a great bet.
Having five McD burgers won't make any of them into a filet from Morton's.
Yep, you just never know. I'm sure the Nets weren't expecting to be conveying multiple top-5 picks to the Celtics when they traded for Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett earlier this decade.
PhDeac
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Just tuned in to see if the Hornets lose to China in Summer League. Kennedy Meeks just got worked in the post by some dude who apparently had a cup of coffee with the Rockets. Weird to see Mark Jones and Doris doing summer league comes much less a game against China.
2&2 Slider To Leyritz
Well-known member
Thanks to lambasting the front office to my ticket guy and refusing to re-up after the disaster of an offseason, I got asked to have lunch with Borrego and Kupchak and about 10 other disgruntled fans so they could explain the situation. Short version - Borrego is pretty cool and seems to know the situation; Kupchak also knows the situation but seems like a dick. Some general takeaways:
- I questioned Kupchak a lot about the Kemba situation. It became pretty clear that he was an "outsider" coming in to do a job and either didn't take the time to learn or didn't care about Kemba's place in team history and its future. Kupchak's only focus is trying to create a winning team over the next few years, regardless of the individual players involved.
- Kupchak claimed that they thought they had a deal in place with Kemba early in the season, but they couldn't sign it then because due to NBA regs they had to wait until after the season. Once the season ended and Kemba had an all-NBA year, the team stuck with the same original offer but Kemba obviously wanted more at that point. He wasn't blaming Kemba for anything, just saying that the market for him increased more than anyone initially thought it would, so perspectives changed when it came time to sign, and they couldn't justify paying that much after not making the playoffs lately.
- Kupchak said that Kemba's personality / "likeability" to the city, and any intangible value he brought to the fanbase played no part in the amount they offered him, it was strictly a cost relative to wins issue. I told him that was a bad way to look at it in this particular situation for a team struggling to keep its fans that won't be winning anytime soon anyway.
- Borrego said he was under instructions last year to make the playoffs, hence the veterans minutes toward the beginning of the year. That edict is off for this season, it is all about development. So the young guys will all play a lot, he won't be coaching to contracts. He includes Rozier as one of the young guys.
- Borrego said that last year was essentially Monk's rookie year given the lack of PT or Swarm time that he got the prior year, and they treated him as such due to his lack of BBall IQ. He says he has added a lot more muscle to his frame, and expects a lot more from him this year, but definitely still sounded skeptical.
- Borrego had high praises for Bacon, Bridges, and PJ Washington. He said Bridges projects as the starting 4 going forward, so I asked if he and Washington can play next to each other or if one will have to sit behind the other. He said starting out Washington will likely backup, but he anticipates that he will be able to eventually play a lot of 5 next to Bridges in an up-tempo lineup.
- They both expect that one of Bacon or Hernangomez to make a big jump this year to necessitate a decent contract next summer. That will take some of the room created by the Biyombo, Marv, MKG expirations, but they still expect to have a lot of flexibility. They alluded to taking on an expiring contract next summer to get another first round pick to match up timing with Batum coming off. Kupchak specifically said that his methods of improvement order draft, trades, and then signing FAs last.
- I asked Borrego if Duncan is assisting Pop to eventually come to Wake as head coach. His response was "Is Manning still there?" "Yes." "Good luck."
- I questioned Kupchak a lot about the Kemba situation. It became pretty clear that he was an "outsider" coming in to do a job and either didn't take the time to learn or didn't care about Kemba's place in team history and its future. Kupchak's only focus is trying to create a winning team over the next few years, regardless of the individual players involved.
- Kupchak claimed that they thought they had a deal in place with Kemba early in the season, but they couldn't sign it then because due to NBA regs they had to wait until after the season. Once the season ended and Kemba had an all-NBA year, the team stuck with the same original offer but Kemba obviously wanted more at that point. He wasn't blaming Kemba for anything, just saying that the market for him increased more than anyone initially thought it would, so perspectives changed when it came time to sign, and they couldn't justify paying that much after not making the playoffs lately.
- Kupchak said that Kemba's personality / "likeability" to the city, and any intangible value he brought to the fanbase played no part in the amount they offered him, it was strictly a cost relative to wins issue. I told him that was a bad way to look at it in this particular situation for a team struggling to keep its fans that won't be winning anytime soon anyway.
- Borrego said he was under instructions last year to make the playoffs, hence the veterans minutes toward the beginning of the year. That edict is off for this season, it is all about development. So the young guys will all play a lot, he won't be coaching to contracts. He includes Rozier as one of the young guys.
- Borrego said that last year was essentially Monk's rookie year given the lack of PT or Swarm time that he got the prior year, and they treated him as such due to his lack of BBall IQ. He says he has added a lot more muscle to his frame, and expects a lot more from him this year, but definitely still sounded skeptical.
- Borrego had high praises for Bacon, Bridges, and PJ Washington. He said Bridges projects as the starting 4 going forward, so I asked if he and Washington can play next to each other or if one will have to sit behind the other. He said starting out Washington will likely backup, but he anticipates that he will be able to eventually play a lot of 5 next to Bridges in an up-tempo lineup.
- They both expect that one of Bacon or Hernangomez to make a big jump this year to necessitate a decent contract next summer. That will take some of the room created by the Biyombo, Marv, MKG expirations, but they still expect to have a lot of flexibility. They alluded to taking on an expiring contract next summer to get another first round pick to match up timing with Batum coming off. Kupchak specifically said that his methods of improvement order draft, trades, and then signing FAs last.
- I asked Borrego if Duncan is assisting Pop to eventually come to Wake as head coach. His response was "Is Manning still there?" "Yes." "Good luck."
CDeacMan
Ishmael Smith
So sounds like "trust the process" 2.0
2&2 Slider To Leyritz
Well-known member
Somewhat. They both said that due to the adjustment of lottery rules it doesn't make sense to intentionally lose. More just focus on the young guys we have, see who pans out, hope to hit on one or two of them, don't give away picks, and try to acquire more picks. By the end everyone else had left and it was just me, Kupchak, and Borrego, so Kupchak got into a lot of detail about using OKC as a test case for small market teams, and not solely in a positive way. I'm not sure I agree with everything he said, but he is going with it.
PhDeac
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OKC drafted well. Like opposite of the Bobcats/Hornets well. There’s no crazy formula to winning in the NBA. Draft good players and don’t overpay. One doesn’t work without the other. Not overpaying Kemba won’t matter if they can’t draft.
Good stuff, 2&2. Reminds me of when Wellman and [Redacted] juice boxed and dined the BSD crew. Hope they didn’t work their magic on you.
Good stuff, 2&2. Reminds me of when Wellman and [Redacted] juice boxed and dined the BSD crew. Hope they didn’t work their magic on you.
2&2 Slider To Leyritz
Well-known member
Yeah Kupchak put a lot of stock in luck as well, which I wasn't a huge fan of. Like luck in the lottery and luck as to who the teams ahead of you draft. When discussing OKC he got into the Oden / Durant debate, saying that OKC essentially lucked into Durant by getting #2, because had they gotten #1 they would have picked Oden like Portland did. So luck kept them from their own bad decisions. So, assuming he sticks around, I assume he'll use luck as an excuse for poor performance. But there is a difference in blaming bad luck for being the first team to openly tank but still getting the #2 pick in the Anthony Davis draft, and blaming bad luck for trying to justify taking MKG with that #2 pick over Beal or Lillard or Drummond. No matter how bad the luck, it is his job to maximize the resulting situation.
And no i didn't fall for their magic. The ticket guy jumped me when I came out, and I told him that understanding their plan and willingly paying to watch it are two completely different things. They need to cut their prices to correspond with cutting their expected wins.
And no i didn't fall for their magic. The ticket guy jumped me when I came out, and I told him that understanding their plan and willingly paying to watch it are two completely different things. They need to cut their prices to correspond with cutting their expected wins.
Do we need to start a new thread or just change the title of this one?.....the last 8 minutes of this game has been thoroughly entertaining. Who knew PJ Washington was a stretch 4/5! And loved seeing Devonte Graham ball out and keep Rozier on the bench most of the 4th quarter. Set a new franchise record for made 3-pointers in a game.