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How Many Wins Will 2018-19 Wake Forest Basketball Have on Selection Sunday?

How many wins for WF on Selection Sunday (excluding exhibition)?

  • 0-11

    Votes: 23 17.3%
  • 12

    Votes: 20 15.0%
  • 13

    Votes: 28 21.1%
  • 14

    Votes: 15 11.3%
  • 15

    Votes: 14 10.5%
  • 16

    Votes: 9 6.8%
  • 17

    Votes: 12 9.0%
  • 18

    Votes: 7 5.3%
  • 19

    Votes: 2 1.5%
  • 20 or more

    Votes: 3 2.3%

  • Total voters
    133
  • Poll closed .
Fair enough, I guess. There was something unpleasant about last year causing such an exodus. Very similar to what happened after the second year of BZ.

One would hope that an AD would look at this much discontent and not automatically assume the problem is not with the coach he hired. Then again, one would hope their AD were not Ron Wellman.

If Wellman would have fired Manning after last year's dissapointment and exodus it would not have shocked me, and I think you can make a clear argument for why. I come from the other side of the coin as someone who (long ago) has coached, and to me, Manning is attempting to do the right things. From the looks of things, he will end up being ineffective in his time at Wake, but he wasn't a [name redacted] kind of hire. He was a solid swing at it, and he came really close to getting us back where we need to be. A set of unfortunate circumstances and coaching deficiencies (that he has not corrected yet) has left Manning with little to show for his time here. His personality (or moreover lack of...) has cost him precious support during down times. It is tough to blame Manning for that, and that is in my opinion where a lot of the unfair criticism comes from on the boards. Some people are just boring. It sucks for them, but it isn't worth mocking the guy.

I do think our talent level in this freshman class is extremely good, and while Hoard is probably gone after this year, we still have some talent returning for the following year. Mucius, Brown, Childress, and Sarr are 4 really exciting players at their respective ages. I think Hoard ends up being a 1st round pick, and so he is likely gone, but the other 4 (if Manning does his job) should return and form the backbone of a good lineup. Manning has to come through with another good 19 recruit or much of his work on the recruiting trail will be for naught whether he is the one that coaches the team or not.
 
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I have no desire to drag the boards down another one of your shit hole arguments. The sad part is that I’m one of the (relatively) few who largely agrees with you re: Manning, but you can be so insufferable. Keep quoting all you want but I’m not engaging on this anymore.
 
That’s exactly what the phrase “agree to disagree” means. Absent an actual agreement it just means you are unwilling to defend or entertain criticism of your position.

jesus christ now you're arguing the definition of phrases please shut the fuck up all of you

We were talking about basketball. You're talking about the what "agree to disagree means". Just stop it. It's awful.

I have no desire to drag the boards down another one of your shit hole arguments. The sad part is that I’m one of the (relatively) few who largely agrees with you re: Manning, but you can be so insufferable. Keep quoting all you want but I’m not engaging on this anymore.
 
If Wellman would have fired Manning after last year's dissapointment and exodus it would not have shocked me, and I think you can make a clear argument for why. I come from the other side of the coin as someone who (long ago) has coached, and to me, Manning is attempting to do the right things. From the looks of things, he will end up being ineffective in his time at Wake, but he wasn't a [name redacted] kind of hire. He was a solid swing at it, and he came really close to getting us back where we need to be. A set of unfortunate circumstances and coaching deficiencies (that he has not corrected yet) has left Manning with little to show for his time here. His personality (or moreover lack of...) has cost him precious support during down times. It is tough to blame Manning for that, and that is in my opinion where a lot of the unfair criticism comes from on the boards. Some people are just boring. It sucks for them, but it isn't worth mocking the guy.

I do think our talent level in this freshman class is extremely good, and while Hoard is probably gone after this year, we still have some talent returning for the following year. Mucius, Brown, Childress, and Sarr are 4 really exciting players at their respective ages. I think Hoard ends up being a 1st round pick, and so he is likely gone, but the other 4 (if Manning does his job) should return and form the backbone of a good lineup. Manning has to come through with another good 19 recruit or much of his work on the recruiting trail will be for naught whether he is the one that coaches the team or not.

I am not as optimistic as you are about the talent that we will have after next year but I understand your desire to give the benefit of the doubt to the coach. I just don't think you can do that at this level.

At the risk of offending Rchill, I really think Manning could have succeeded had he figured out defense. I feel that defense is more important at the college level than the pros.

Almost all college players have weaknesses and many have multiple weaknesses. Strong defenses can take advantage of that. At the pro level, some of those guys are 100% unstoppable regardless of defense when they are on. I think Manning coming from a pro back ground looks at defense differently than does a guy who has been a college coach from the day he graduated from college.
 
Wake is preseason #91 in KenPom. Projected record is 12-16 (5-13) -- it doesn't include our 2nd and 3rd games at the Myrtle Beach Invitational since opponent is not certain.
 
I expected 12 wins. I predicted 13 on the thread which is KenPom's 12 plus a loser bracket win in Myrtle.
 
Wake is preseason #91 in KenPom. Projected record is 12-16 (5-13) -- it doesn't include our 2nd and 3rd games at the Myrtle Beach Invitational since opponent is not certain.

Looks about right and so sad for a 5th year coach. 4 was plenty to know what we had.
 
I actually agree w/ rchill here. KP gives about zero credit for freshmen... Only the elite of the elite, so maybe Hoard helped.

We are also hampered by shitty recent performance, which carries over a bit.

With only 3 returning players, I expected it to be much uglier in KP.

Obviously doesn’t mean much (anything) given all of the turnover, but it helps to understand what goes into the KP preseason rankings.
 
I actually agree w/ rchill here. KP gives about zero credit for freshmen... Only the elite of the elite, so maybe Hoard helped.

We are also hampered by shitty recent performance, which carries over a bit.

With only 3 returning players, I expected it to be much uglier in KP.

Obviously doesn’t mean much (anything) given all of the turnover, but it helps to understand what goes into the KP preseason rankings.

12 wins is better than expected. Is this rock bottom?
 
No. Rock bottom is when Manning comes back after winning 14 and overachieving.
 
12 wins is better than expected. Is this rock bottom?

At the risk of sounding like rchill, I don’t think you understand KP.

Or at least preseason KP.

We sucked last year. We return virtually nobody. That usually means a horrific KP to start.

I actually have much higher expectations than KP... But that wasn’t the point of my post.
 
At the risk of sounding like rchill, I don’t think you understand KP.

Or at least preseason KP.

We sucked last year. We return virtually nobody. That usually means a horrific KP to start.

I actually have much higher expectations than KP... But that wasn’t the point of my post.

Well the post also expected 12 wins. Did you miss that part?
 
We had 11 wins last year.

We lost all but 3 players.

Some of the players we lost were above ACC replacement level players.

We only get credit for Hoard (and Torry Johnson) as net new players.

I would have expected a preseason KP worse than 12 wins or #91.

That has nothing to do with how I feel about the upcoming season or Manning as coach.

Purely a comment on the output of a statistical model. Nothing more.
 
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