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Melo Eggleston Leaves the Program

PhDeac said:
We needed at least 5 more wins to be eligible for the NIT. That’s pretty far away.
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The OOC schedule is materially easier than last year.

WF lost 5 OOC games last year. WF can play the same crappy basketball as last year and lose 3 OOC games. Possible that WF could lose only 2 OOC games. Also, it seems like the ACC is a little weaker than last year. BC, GT and Miami (who WF plays twice are all weaker), WF went 1-3 against those teams last year. Think 3-1 is possible against those teams.
 
jaybone said:
Here's the fucking thing though, unless I am suffering from reading comprehension fail, RC is NOT simply defending Manning as our "answer." All he's said is that Manning inherited a disaster, and has been an improvement over retired Colorado funny man, Bzd. That's it. He's had some really good recruiting wins. He's found at least one diamond with a 3star ranking, and RC "hopes" that Manning hasn't hit his ceiling and can improve as a coach and leader of a program. He's essentially acknowledged Manning's shortcomings. Now, because he doesn't want Manning gone yesterday he is somehow "all in" on Manning???

It just sucks that our program conversations fall into this terrible black-white trap. Especially from a pretty knowledgeable poster like yourself. I think you should lay off the absolutes (and Asbolute).

I am pro-Manning and I am on record stating I think we will overachieve this year. The reason I am pro-Manning is simply because I do want Wellman to hire the next Wake Forest basketball coach. I'd rather watch a Manning-coach team try to claw out 16-20 wins over the next 3 or so years and wait for either a) Wellman to retire or b) CP3 to win an NBA championship and retire. It is as simple as that. I'd rather root for Manning than the next Mark Turgeon or some third-choice coach we end up with should this season fall apart and Manning get canned after it.
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If that's the case, RC could have just agreed with a lot of my posts, but he didn't. If a coach isn't the answer, he needs to be fired. RC disagreed with that. And don't give me the "We don't want Wellman hiring the coach" BS. Fire Manning and hire a new coach. If that new coach sucks, the new AD can fire him. There's no reason Manning should be coaching this year.
 
PhDeac said:
RC, why are you clarifying my words instead of just going with what I said? I further clarified what those jumps would mean from Chaundee and Sarr yet you ignore it. Sarr was far from good. A big jump would make him a contributor.
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So a “legit ACC contributor” isn’t a good player?
 
Pilchard said:
The OOC schedule is materially easier than last year.

WF lost 5 OOC games last year. WF can play the same crappy basketball as last year and lose 3 OOC games. Possible that WF could lose only 2 OOC games. Also, it seems like the ACC is a little weaker than last year. BC, GT and Miami (who WF plays twice are all weaker), WF went 1-3 against those teams last year. Think 3-1 is possible against those teams.
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This guy gets it.

The Myrtle Beach tourney is hot garbage (aside from WVU)... Have to go 2-1 there. Other than @UT, I think we'll be favored in every OOC game. Just need to avoid any Drake-like performances.

Conference play will obviously be tough, but I think we'll have some games where we play out of our minds... Expecting a few Ws that don't exactly jump out when you look at the schedule. There will also be some ugly losses.
 
jaybone said:
Here's the fucking thing though, unless I am suffering from reading comprehension fail, RC is NOT simply defending Manning as our "answer." All he's said is that Manning inherited a disaster, and has been an improvement over retired Colorado funny man, Bzd. That's it. He's had some really good recruiting wins. He's found at least one diamond with a 3star ranking, and RC "hopes" that Manning hasn't hit his ceiling and can improve as a coach and leader of a program. He's essentially acknowledged Manning's shortcomings. Now, because he doesn't want Manning gone yesterday he is somehow "all in" on Manning???

It just sucks that our program conversations fall into this terrible black-white trap. Especially from a pretty knowledgeable poster like yourself. I think you should lay off the absolutes (and Asbolute).

I am pro-Manning and I am on record stating I think we will overachieve this year. The reason I am pro-Manning is simply because I do want Wellman to hire the next Wake Forest basketball coach. I'd rather watch a Manning-coach team try to claw out 16-20 wins over the next 3 or so years and wait for either a) Wellman to retire or b) CP3 to win an NBA championship and retire. It is as simple as that. I'd rather root for Manning than the next Mark Turgeon or some third-choice coach we end up with should this season fall apart and Manning get canned after it.
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Manning is BZ without the aspergers. He ain't winning 16-20 games per year.

Manning can't even keep players from #walkingaway. It appears that now, he can't get them here to begin with.

Just randomly picking a division III coach from a hat likely is an improvement.

How likely is it that Wellman will be able to scrape the very bottom of the barrel 3 times in a row. You would have to actually have talent to pick 3 of the worst coaches in the NCAA's in consecutive hires.
 
Not to step into this battle, but I'll opine as an outsider...

Sarr is going to be an ACC contributor by default. We are thin in the frontcourt and he's going to get as many minutes as he can handle. So he'll put up some numbers.

The question, I think, is whether or not he'll be above average for his position in the ACC... I suspect he will.

I'm already on the record as saying Chaundee Brown will be our best player this year. If he's not, it's because Jaylen Hoard is better than I thought he'd be right away. I'm convinced Brown is a 3rd team All-ACC guy this season if we don't completely suck. He's going to put a lot of basketballs in the basket this year. Well, it'll probably be the same basketball multiple times each game, but you knew what I meant.
 
PhDeac said:
To the problem of having a bad basketball program.
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He was an answer to that question through March 2017. Unfortunately, he did not remain an answer to that question once JC left and I have serious doubts about whether he can get back to being an answer. If he’s not back there by the end of this year then he should go, even if Wellman is still AD.

Probably wrong, but just maybe right > than wrong is the only reason I didn’t join the chorus at the end of last season.
 
I'm not pro-Manning, but think that WF will be better this upcoming year.

As stated above, WF massaged the schedule to maximize the win total. Also, WF lost an inordinate number of tight games last year. While Manning is partially, maybe even largely, to blame for that, part of the unbelievably bad record in tight games is luck. WF will get some bounces this year, or as people here will characterize it, WF will win some games in spite of late game coaching decisions. Finally, team chemistry was a train-wreck last year, again, while a lot of that falls on Manning, also think the players that contributed most to the horrid atmosphere are gone. Think this team at least won't hate each other and won't want the season to be over as much as last year's team. Not a high bar to set for team chemistry, but not hard to improve over last season.

BTW, feel like Jaybone hit the nail on the head when he noted the "black/white" trap. Recognizing that there are circumstances that may lead to slightly improved season in 2018-9, doesn't signal a Pro-Manning stance and doesn't ignore the continuing suckitude of the hoop program.
 
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Pilchard said:
I'm not pro-Manning, but think that WF will be better this upcoming year.

As stated above, WF massaged the schedule to maximize the win total. Also, WF lost an inordinate number of tight games last year. While Manning is partially, maybe even largely, to blame for that, part of the unbelievably bad record in tight games is luck. WF will get some bounces this year, or as people here, will characterize it, WF will win some games in spite of late game coaching decisions. Finally, team chemistry was a train-wreck last year, again, while a lot of that falls on Manning, also think the players that contributed most to the horrid atmosphere are gone. Think this team at least won't hate each other and won't want the season to be over as much as last year's team. Not a high bar to set for team chemistry, but not hard to improve over last season.

BTW, feel like Jaybone hit the nail on the head when he noted the "black/white" trap. Recognizing that there are circumstances that may lead to slightly improved season in 2018-9, doesn't signal a Pro-Manning stance and doesn't ignore the continuing suckitude of the hoop program.
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This isn't wrong, but it makes me sad.

Feels like it'll be tough to enjoy this season because even if it turns out OK (above .500 with some good wins), we will probably suck again in 2019-20 and for the foreseeable future.
 
DeacsATS said:
This isn't wrong, but it makes me sad.

Feels like it'll be tough to enjoy this season because even if it turns out OK (above .500 with some good wins), we will probably suck again in 2019-20 and for the foreseeable future.
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Which is why many of us wanted a new coach back in March 2018. What's happened in this last 7 months was the most obvious outcome. We can't act surprised that recruits don't want come here. We can't act surprised players have transferred. We shouldn't act surprised when players transfer or leave early after the season.
 
PhDeac said:
If that's the case, RC could have just agreed with a lot of my posts, but he didn't. If a coach isn't the answer, he needs to be fired. RC disagreed with that. And don't give me the "We don't want Wellman hiring the coach" BS. Fire Manning and hire a new coach. If that new coach sucks, the new AD can fire him. There's no reason Manning should be coaching this year.
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Dude. There's no reason Trump should be President either. Those ships have sailed.
 
jaybone said:
Dude. There's no reason Trump should be President either. Those ships have sailed.
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Trump ran and enough people in the right places voted for him.

Come up with a comparable reason why Manning is still our coach.
 
knowell said:
Manning is BZ without the aspergers. He ain't winning 16-20 games per year.

Manning can't even keep players from #walkingaway. It appears that now, he can't get them here to begin with.

Just randomly picking a division III coach from a hat likely is an improvement.

How likely is it that Wellman will be able to scrape the very bottom of the barrel 3 times in a row. You would have to actually have talent to pick 3 of the worst coaches in the NCAA's in consecutive hires.
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For any argument to work, it has to be logical and consistent with fact. It is not logical or congruent to fact to argue that he can't recruit talent when we are going to start a 5star kid who is our highest recruit since Al-Farouq. You need to go try and again and this time start with basic real truths, not ginned up ones. He hasn't recruited ENOUGH elite talent to cover his coaching shortcomings.

Also, he has already won between 16-20 games in a season, so it seems weird to start your argument with he ain't. I agree that doing so 25% of the time is not good enough. It really should be 95% of the time you win 16+ games in a season.
 
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