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Official 2018-19 NBA Season Thread - NBA Finals Raptors Win #WeTheNorth

San Antonio would want more than the #4 pick for an established all star.
 
was in toronto for work last week, so i went to game 3. you're welcome, toronto.
 
Think people tend to overrated the success rate of draft picks, here are the last 10 #4 picks in the NBA draft:

2009 - Tyreke Evans
2010 - Wesley Johnson
2011 - Tristan Thompson
2012 - Dion Waiters
2013 - Cody Zeller
2014 - Aaron Gordon
2015 - Kristaps Porzingis
2016 - Dragan Bender (I don't know who this is - nice pick Suns!)
2017 - Josh Jackson
2018 - Jaren Jackson

Even with the benefit of hindsight, none of those picks (not one) would be worth giving up DeRozen for. This underscores the flaw behind the tanking theory. The miss rate with even top 5 draft picks is high; teams that seek to be the worst to accumulate talent risk staying bad for a long time which destroys the fanbase and makes the franchise toxic for free agents.
 
Pilchard said:
Think people tend to overrated the success rate of draft picks, here are the last 10 #4 picks in the NBA draft:

2009 - Tyreke Evans
2010 - Wesley Johnson
2011 - Tristan Thompson
2012 - Dion Waiters
2013 - Cody Zeller
2014 - Aaron Gordon
2015 - Kristaps Porzingis
2016 - Dragan Bender (I don't know who this is - nice pick Suns!)
2017 - Josh Jackson
2018 - Jaren Jackson

Even with the benefit of hindsight, none of those picks (not one) would be worth giving up DeRozen for. This underscores the flaw behind the tanking theory. The miss rate with even top 5 draft picks is high; teams that seek to be the worst to accumulate talent risk staying bad for a long time which destroys the fanbase and makes the franchise toxic for free agents.
Click to expand...

Bender is excellent on NBA 2k18 (I think that's the version I have), so he has that going for him.
 
This is way getting to a contract where you can make $8mil + for a few years is worth the hustle:



Honestly, episode 2 is better but longer ...
 
Pilchard said:
Think people tend to overrated the success rate of draft picks, here are the last 10 #4 picks in the NBA draft:

2009 - Tyreke Evans
2010 - Wesley Johnson
2011 - Tristan Thompson
2012 - Dion Waiters
2013 - Cody Zeller
2014 - Aaron Gordon
2015 - Kristaps Porzingis
2016 - Dragan Bender (I don't know who this is - nice pick Suns!)
2017 - Josh Jackson
2018 - Jaren Jackson

Even with the benefit of hindsight, none of those picks (not one) would be worth giving up DeRozen for. This underscores the flaw behind the tanking theory. The miss rate with even top 5 draft picks is high; teams that seek to be the worst to accumulate talent risk staying bad for a long time which destroys the fanbase and makes the franchise toxic for free agents.
Click to expand...

Sure. But look at the teams who made those picks. They had the #4 pick for a reason. With that #4 pick, they had the opportunity to select:

2009 - Steph Curry
2010 - Paul George
2011 - Kawhi Leonard
2012 - Damian Lillard
2013 - Giannis Antetokounmpo
2014 - Nicola Jokic (obviously everybody had a shot at him)
2015 - Kristaps Porzingis
2016 - Jamal Murray
2017 - John Collins
2018 - Trae Young

But they didn't.
 
Pilchard said:
Think people tend to overrated the success rate of draft picks, here are the last 10 #4 picks in the NBA draft:

2009 - Tyreke Evans
2010 - Wesley Johnson
2011 - Tristan Thompson
2012 - Dion Waiters
2013 - Cody Zeller
2014 - Aaron Gordon
2015 - Kristaps Porzingis
2016 - Dragan Bender (I don't know who this is - nice pick Suns!)
2017 - Josh Jackson
2018 - Jaren Jackson

Even with the benefit of hindsight, none of those picks (not one) would be worth giving up DeRozen for. This underscores the flaw behind the tanking theory. The miss rate with even top 5 draft picks is high; teams that seek to be the worst to accumulate talent risk staying bad for a long time which destroys the fanbase and makes the franchise toxic for free agents.
Click to expand...
Spurs wouldn't trade DeRozan for Zinger or Jaren Jackson? Doubt that.
 
In retrospect, if you can cherry pick the best single player in the draft after the 3rd pick, that would be a great way to build a team, but it's not reality. High draft picks in the NBA have a pretty significant bust rate.
 
And again, there’s a reason why those GMs were picking #4. They aren’t good at judging talent.

Look, I’m a firm believer you can get good talent anywhere in the draft. It’s not worth moving heaven and earth just to get picks.

But the reality is a future all-NBA player is likely on the board at #4. If the Spurs can get a package that includes Kuzma and the #4 for DeRozan, they should consider it.
 
Why do teams get the #4 pick?

Because their teams have been very bad on and off the court. Thus, using whom they chose to "prove" the pick has X or Y success rate is not reasonable. Bad organizations make bad picks. This is a more reasonable position that the #4 pick is not that great.
 
I cannot recall an organization imploding quite the way the Lakers are - front office wise. I have breezed through several articles recently and the thread connecting all of them is that Pelinka is essentially a serial liar. Who also says really weird shit. I think it is crazy that the Pelicans fired their GM for basically getting in bed with Pelinka and Magic, and that nobody in the Lakers organization paid the price for what was the shitshow of pursuing Anthony Davis publicly with basically all of your roster outside Lebron.

I honestly don't know how you fix it other than totally cleaning house and let Lebron put his own team in - or just clean house and name Kobe the GM and see how he does.
 
jaybone said:
I cannot recall an organization imploding quite the way the Lakers are - front office wise. I have breezed through several articles recently and the thread connecting all of them is that Pelinka is essentially a serial liar. Who also says really weird shit. I think it is crazy that the Pelicans fired their GM for basically getting in bed with Pelinka and Magic, and that nobody in the Lakers organization paid the price for what was the shitshow of pursuing Anthony Davis publicly with basically all of your roster outside Lebron.

I honestly don't know how you fix it other than totally cleaning house and let Lebron put his own team in - or just clean house and name Kobe the GM and see how he does.
Click to expand...

No, the answer is to pay whatever needs to be paid to bring back Pat Riley. Reunite Pat Riley to serve as actual GM with LeBron on the Lakers with nobody else under contract.
 
Pilchard said:
Think people tend to overrated the success rate of draft picks, here are the last 10 #4 picks in the NBA draft:

2009 - Tyreke Evans
2010 - Wesley Johnson
2011 - Tristan Thompson
2012 - Dion Waiters
2013 - Cody Zeller
2014 - Aaron Gordon
2015 - Kristaps Porzingis
2016 - Dragan Bender (I don't know who this is - nice pick Suns!)
2017 - Josh Jackson
2018 - Jaren Jackson

Even with the benefit of hindsight, none of those picks (not one) would be worth giving up DeRozen for. This underscores the flaw behind the tanking theory. The miss rate with even top 5 draft picks is high; teams that seek to be the worst to accumulate talent risk staying bad for a long time which destroys the fanbase and makes the franchise toxic for free agents.
Click to expand...

I disagree because you are ignoring a huge component -- contract size. DeRozan will get paid over $27MM next year, while Jaren Jackson will be paid under $7MM. And if you chance into a true superstar, you've got a big advantage keeping him around on an extension due to the cap rules. So it's definitely less of a sure thing, but getting high-level contribs on a rookie contract is gold.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
No, the answer is to pay whatever needs to be paid to bring back Pat Riley. Reunite Pat Riley to serve as actual GM with LeBron on the Lakers with nobody else under contract.
Click to expand...

Riley is happily ensconced in Miami. He'll be dead when the city falls to the tide. He's got a hands off owner - one I might add who didn't fuck the last GM there. Plus, he's got problems to solve of his own there. He ain't going back to LA at 74 to work with the Buss family. That is why ownership and then mgmt matters.

The best they can do right now is Kobe. Otherwise, the hire has to go thru Lebron.
 
PhDeac said:
And again, there’s a reason why those GMs were picking #4. They aren’t good at judging talent.

Look, I’m a firm believer you can get good talent anywhere in the draft. It’s not worth moving heaven and earth just to get picks.

But the reality is a future all-NBA player is likely on the board at #4. If the Spurs can get a package that includes Kuzma and the #4 for DeRozan, they should consider it.
Click to expand...

There are obviously some GMs that suck at drafting, but I’d be willing to bet every single NBA GM has made shitty picks.

A lot of luck involved.
 
jaybone said:
Riley is happily ensconced in Miami. He'll be dead when the city falls to the tide. He's got a hands off owner - one I might add who didn't fuck the last GM there. Plus, he's got problems to solve of his own there. He ain't going back to LA at 74 to work with the Buss family. That is why ownership and then mgmt matters.

The best they can do right now is Kobe. Otherwise, the hire has to go thru Lebron.
Click to expand...

Lebatard says Riley would go back to the Lakers, as he ultimately wants to spend his time at his Malibu house. No one from the Lakers has reached out to him, though.
 
DeacsATS said:
There are obviously some GMs that suck at drafting, but I’d be willing to bet every single NBA GM has made shitty picks.

A lot of luck involved.
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t call it luck no more than you’d say a .350 hitter is luckier than a .250 hitter. No one bats 1.000. Sure you don’t get all the picks right but some consistently do better than others.
 
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