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Jaylen Hoard - He Gone

Hoard should have stayed and potentially played himself into a lottery pick. it is not unheard of with a Soph jump.
 
jaybone said:
I sort of agree with you on players leaving early for the NBA, but ...

Last year we had two players leave early to play pro who didn't get drafted, didn't play in the NBA, and weren't projected to play in the NBA. Programs with actual recruiting and development strategies provide a smoother transition when player leave early. Winning also factors into the decision of players leaning towards going pro. Take UVa. Mike Scott and Malcolm Brogdon were there for 5 YEARS. Both got a medical redshirt. Joe Harris was there four years. Villanova has guys leave early after breakout seasons, but every kid recruited there knows they will likely play under 20 minutes a game their frosh year, maybe even their soph year as they apprentice behind a future NBA or Euro pro.

We don't have a strategy. We bitch and moan about how we mucked up Collins, but he essentially Villanova-ed his frosh year. It's just - since we have no development or recruiting strategy it looks weird. Those types of season jumps happen to one or two players per year at Villanova.

I agree that Hoard always wanted to be a one-and-done -but any non dysfunctional program would have lured him back for another year with the hopes of the coming season, the chance to dominate as the game "slows down" and improve draft stock and earn more money from the get go. Because Hoard likely just saw one big slog upcoming with the upside of living near his sister and near a whole bunch of co-eds, he has essentially chosen Sioux Falls on a Wednesday night over Wake and the ACC. I repeat. Hoard has chosen Siouix Falls over Wake. Honestly, Currie needs to look at that and have a huge wtf moment. Even if he starts at a place of total neutrality - it's a huge red flag.

I actually think the stars are lining up for Billy Donovan. I know it's a fool's hope, but Monday night was awful for the Thunder - Coach D says Thunder weren't in the paint enough and that's why they lost; their star says no, coach is full of shit essentially. If the Thunder lose (tonight?) and are bounced from the playoffs, they'll need to either fire Donovan or trade Westbrook. They can't trade Westbrook.
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Donovan could be available and interested but that does not mean Wake would not honor their commitment to losing and to Manning.
 
Hoard (like Crawford and Moore) isn't leaving for the NBA, they are leaving to play professional basketball. Not getting drafted in the first round does not mean you made a poor decision.

I also think that the likelihood of players raising their stock by staying in college is vastly overestimated.
 
IAppreciateIt said:
Hoard (like Crawford and Moore) isn't leaving for the NBA, they are leaving to play professional basketball. Not getting drafted in the first round does not mean you made a poor decision.

I also think that the likelihood of players raising their stock by staying in college is vastly overestimated.
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The following underclassman tested the waters in 2017 and returned to school. Three moved into the first round of the 2018 draft, eight were drafted in the second round of the 2018 draft, and the remaining either went undrafted in 2018 or returned to school for the 2019 season.


Shaqquan Aaron, SF, USC (sophomore) (link)
Jaylen Adams, PG, St. Bonaventure (junior) (link)
Deng Adel, F, Louisville (sophomore) (link)
Jashaun Agosto, G, Long Island (freshman) (link)
Bashir Ahmed, F, St. John’s (junior) (link)
Rawle Alkins, SG, Arizona (freshman) (link)
Mark Alstork, SG, Wright State (junior) (link)
Jaylen Barford, G, Arkansas (junior) (link)
Trae Bell-Haynes, G, Vermont (junior) (link)
Joel Berry II, PG, UNC (junior) (link)
Trevon Bluiett, SF, Xavier (junior) (link)
Bennie Boatwright, PF, USC (sophomore) (link)
Jacobi Boykins, SG, Louisiana Tech (junior) (link)
Rodney Bullock, F, Providence (junior) (link)
Jevon Carter, G, West Virginia (junior) (link) - 2nd round, 32nd pick
Joseph Chartouny, G, Fordham (sophomore) (link)
Donte Clark, G/F, UMass (junior) (link)
Chris Clemons, PG, Campbell (sophomore) (link)
David Collette, PF, Utah (junior) (link)
Angel Delgado, PF, Seton Hall (junior) (link)
Hamidou Diallo, SG, Kentucky (freshman) (link) - 2nd round, 45th overall
Vince Edwards, SF, Purdue (junior) (link) - 2nd round, 52nd overall
John Egbunu, C, Florida (center) (link)
Jon Elmore, SG, Marshall (junior) (link)
Obi Enechionyia, PF, Temple (junior) (link)
Drew Eubanks, C, Oregon State (sophomore) (link)
Tacko Fall, C, UCF (sophomore) (link)
Brandon Goodwin, G, FGCU (junior) (link)
Donte Grantham, SF, Clemson (junior) (link)
Isaac Haas, C, Purdue (junior) (link)
Aaron Holiday, PG, UCLA (sophomore) (link) - 1st round, 23rd overall
Chandler Hutchison, SG, Boise State (junior) (link) - 1st round, 22nd overall
Justin Jackson, SF, Maryland (freshman) (link) - 2nd round, 43rd overall
Alize Johnson, PF, Missouri State (junior) (link) - 2nd round, 50th overall
B.J. Johnson, SF, La Salle (junior) (link)
Robert Johnson, SG, Indiana (junior) (link)
Andrew Jones, PG, Texas (freshman) (link)
Kerem Kanter, PF, Green Bay (junior) (link)
Braxton Key, F, Alabama (freshman) (link)
George King, SF, Colorado (junior) (link) - 2nd round, 59th overall
Khadeem Lattin, F/C, Oklahoma (junior) (link)
William Lee, PF, UAB (junior) (link)
Zach Lofton, G, Texas Southern (junior) (link)
Daryl Macon, G, Arkansas (junior) (link)
Marin Maric, C, Northern Illinois (junior) (link)
Yante Maten, PF, Georgia (junior) (link)
Markis McDuffie, SF, Wichita State (sophomore) (link)
MiKyle McIntosh, SF, Illinois State (junior) (link)
Matt Morgan, SG, Cornell (sophomore) (link)
Shaquille Morris, PF, Wichita State (junior) (link)
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk, SG, Kansas (junior) (link) - 2nd round, 47th overall
Divine Myles, G, Stetson (junior) (link)
Derick Newton, F, Stetson (sophomore) (link)
Randy Onwuasor, SG, Southern Utah (junior) (link)
Theo Pinson, SF, UNC (junior) (link)
Martavius Robinson, PF, Lewis & Clark CC (sophomore)
Corey Sanders, PG, Rutgers (sophomore) (link)
Victor Sanders, G, Idaho (junior) (link)
Jaaron Simmons, PG, Ohio (junior) (link)
Fred Sims, G, Chicago State (sophomore) (link)
Zach Smith, PF, Texas Tech (junior) (link)
Kamau Stokes, PG, Kansas State (sophomore) (link)
James Thompson, F/C, Eastern Michigan (sophomore) (link)
Stephen Thompson, SG, Oregon State (sophomore) (link)
Moritz Wagner, C, Michigan (sophomore) (link) - 1st round, 25th pick
Tevonn Walker, G, Valparaiso (junior) (link)
Thomas Welsh, C, UCLA (junior) (link) - 2nd round, 58th pick
Thomas Wilder, G, Western Michigan (junior) (link)
Cecil Williams, F, Central Michigan (junior) (link)
Johnathan Williams, PF, Gonzaga (junior) (link)
Kam Williams, SG, Ohio State (junior) (link)
Christian Wilson, G, Texas-San Antonio (junior) (link)
Omer Yurtseven, C, North Carolina State (freshman) (link)
 
warak said:
Hoard should have stayed and potentially played himself into a lottery pick. it is not unheard of with a Soph jump.
Click to expand...

Chalk this up as another win for Mr. Daniel Manning. "I get guys to the league."

Of course, we lose every game, but he is still getting kids to the league - duh.

Stud.
 
Here is the official early entry list from the NCAA - 233 players in total - 172 college players, 3 post-graduates (5th yr HS Sr), and 58 international Players

https://pr.nba.com/early-entry-candidates-2019-draft/

I also went through the list and have the complete list of ACC players that sent in the paperwork.
Players with the asterisk have already said they are staying in the draft.

BC

Kyle Bowman* - Jr
Nik Popovic - Jr


Duke

RJ Barrett* - Fr
Marquis Bolden - Jr
Javin DeLaurier - Jr
Cam Reddish* - Fr
Zion Williamson* - Fr


FSU

MFiondu Kabengele - So

L’ville

Stephen Enoch - Jr
VJ King - Jr
Jordan Nwora - So


Miami

Dewan Hernandez* - Jr


UNC

Nassir Little* - Fr
Coby White* - Fr


NCST

Markell Johnson - Jr
Jalen Lecque (Post Grad – signed recruit)


ND

TJ Gibbs - Jr


Syracuse

Tyus Battle* - Jr
Oshae Brissett - So


UVA

Mamadi Diakite - Jr
De’Andre Hunter* - Jr
Ty Jerome* - Jr
Kyle Guy* - Jr


VT

Nickeil Alexander-Walker* - So
Kerry Blackshear Jr


Wake

Jaylen Hoard* - Fr
 
233 players.

By comparison, 103 left early without graduating for the NFL and an additional 32 graduated and left early.
 
PhDeac said:
233 players.

By comparison, 103 left early without graduating for the NFL and an additional 32 graduated and left early.
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That really stacks the odds against the basketball players. Considering that the NFL drafts more than 3 times as many players as the NBA and NFL rosters have about four times the number of players as the NBA.
 
Reports have Blackshear possibly headed to Kentucky rather than returning to VT if the draft thing doesn't work out.
 
Deaconblue said:
That really stacks the odds against the basketball players. Considering that the NFL drafts more than 3 times as many players as the NBA and NFL rosters have about four times the number of players as the NBA.
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Not to mention the whole leaving any year after the first vs. leaving only after your junior year.

And the shorter career longevity in the NFL.

What I was wondering the other day is if there is data easily available on the # of players in the NBA (and NFL) by class. Does it peak at "Rookie" and decline from there every year? Or is there a sweet spot a couple of years out where that is the dominant class in the pros? Doesn't really matter for anything, I was just curious. Not even sure if what I am asking is clear.

Like, does it go (completely making up #s here)

Rookie - 20%
2nd year - 18%
3rd year - 15%
4th year - 12%
5th year - 10%
6th year - 8%
etc

OR

Rookie - 15%
2nd year - 20%
3rd year - 20%
4th year - 15%
5th year - 10%
etc
 
DeacsATS said:
Not to mention the whole leaving any year after the first vs. leaving only after your junior year.

And the shorter career longevity in the NFL.

What I was wondering the other day is if there is data easily available on the # of players in the NBA (and NFL) by class. Does it peak at "Rookie" and decline from there every year? Or is there a sweet spot a couple of years out where that is the dominant class in the pros? Doesn't really matter for anything, I was just curious. Not even sure if what I am asking is clear.

Like, does it go (completely making up #s here)

Rookie - 20%
2nd year - 18%
3rd year - 15%
4th year - 12%
5th year - 10%
6th year - 8%
etc

OR

Rookie - 15%
2nd year - 20%
3rd year - 20%
4th year - 15%
5th year - 10%
etc
Click to expand...

over time, it has to peak at rookie, because every second year player was a rookie, but not the reverse

unless you are not defining rookie as first year in the league but rather first year after college
 
thatguy2016 said:
over time, it has to peak at rookie, because every second year player was a rookie, but not the reverse

unless you are not defining rookie as first year in the league but rather first year after college
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Right. I meant which class they came from. Or more accurately, which year they declared themselves eligible for the draft.

I assume it’s still the first class that always has the most... But in the NBA, I was wondering if you see an influx of year 2 & 3 guys that prove themselves elsewhere.
 
The Athletic Mock Draft 3.0
46. Orlando Magic (from BKN) — Jaylen Hoard

6-9 forward, freshman, Wake Forest

Hoard is a fascinating athlete, with great quickness and solid leaping ability for a player at his size with a plus wingspan. His skill level is still developing, though, as he’s not an elite shooter yet, and his post footwork could use some work. His 0.6 assist-to-turnover ratio also raises questions about his feel for the game. Still, he’s worth taking a flyer on due to the athleticism alone — especially if you can convince him to be a stash pick. Hoard is originally from France, and could potentially help his stock by agreeing to spend a year overseas developing before starting his rookie scale deal. Something for him and NBA teams to ponder.
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That Athletic mock is mentioned in this write-up on Hoard from the Hawks SB site. They're high on this defensive potential if he can gain some weight.

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2019...aft-scouting-report-atlanta-hawks-wake-forest

[h=3]Summary[/h] It’s almost as if he is the opposite type of prospect as another Wake Forest prospect, John Collins. The Hawks forward had a bottomless toolkit to work with on the offensive end of the court at the collegiate level which allowed him to led the country in PER, but lacked the length to project as a plus defender at the NBA level.


Hoard has the length that Collins does not, but, as of now, he lacks the robust offensive skill set. It’s not as if it’s completely absent at the moment, but when you watch him play, you can see there are a handful of skills that are just a tick or two away in terms of player development that might bring along some upside on the offensive end of the court.


Sam Vecenie suggests in this piece for the Athletic that Hoard could be a draft-and-stash prospect assuming that he would be happy to play in Europe for a season or more, where he has family and some experience in his youth, before starting on a rookie scale deal. Given that the Hawks could struggle to find roster spots for all 5 draft picks, should they keep all of them, Hoard could be an intriguing option for the organization.
 
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