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Thread: 2020 Democratic Presidential Nominees

  1. #281

    2020 Democratic Presidential Nominees

    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Will you vote for Beto if heís the nominee? Or will you vote for the easily corrupted third party?
    Yes, Iíll vote for Beto. Will you vote for Bernie (or somebody to the left of Bernie)?

    ETA: I donít mind Beto as a liberal candidate (in the style of Clinton, Clinton, and Kerry). Heís just not a progressive and not my first, second...or tenth preference for the nomination.
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  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Will you vote for Beto if heís the nominee? Or will you vote for the easily corrupted third party?
    That depends, if I talk shit about Beto am I still allowed to vote for him? Based on my experience on the tunnels, many of you don't seem to believe its possible to vote for someone that you actively dislike.
    Draxx them sklounst

  3. #283
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    Definitely. Who else would I vote for?

    I just think Bernie is a poor candidate. He needs to support younger Progressive candidates who have a broader message.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Definitely. Who else would I vote for?

    I just think Bernie is a poor candidate. He needs to support younger Progressive candidates who have a broader message.
    Heís less articulate than Beto, but do you honestly think Betoís platform is better? What is Betoís platform? Dude seems like a center-left chameleon. Hell, even Cory Bookerís platform has some teeth. Iím actually pretty impressed that it appears that heís going to run on baby bonds!
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  5. #285
    Since you didn't add a link it's impossible to tell for sure, MDMH, but I didn't see anywhere in that quote where Beto said he wasn't a progressive. I saw him hedging because he was running against a conservative in Texas and needed moderates to swing his way.

    I think you'd be surprised, or will be surprised, when you hear more from the guy. I spent a bunch of time recently with some of his campaign staff and they're pretty progressive people that believe in his progressiveness.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by wakephan09 View Post
    Since you didn't add a link it's impossible to tell for sure, MDMH, but I didn't see anywhere in that quote where Beto said he wasn't a progressive. I saw him hedging because he was running against a conservative in Texas and needed moderates to swing his way.

    I think you'd be surprised, or will be surprised, when you hear more from the guy. I spent a bunch of time recently with some of his campaign staff and they're pretty progressive people that believe in his progressiveness.
    Did you read the article that looked at his actual record? Talk is cheap. Our records speak for themselves, especially when being a center dem didnít even win him a senate seat.
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  7. #287
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    2020 Democratic Presidential Nominees

    Quote Originally Posted by Strickland33 View Post
    Heís less articulate than Beto, but do you honestly think Betoís platform is better? What is Betoís platform? Dude seems like a center-left chameleon. Hell, even Cory Bookerís platform has some teeth. Iím actually pretty impressed that it appears that heís going to run on baby bonds!
    I didnít realize Beto, Bernie, and Booker were the only three options. Perhaps we can try another letter of the alphabet.

    Pathetic to see people repeating the mistakes of 2016 by focusing their support on only one candidate so early, especially an old established candidate. Itís going to discourage good young Progressives from stepping up.

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by wakephan09 View Post
    Since you didn't add a link it's impossible to tell for sure, MDMH, but I didn't see anywhere in that quote where Beto said he wasn't a progressive. I saw him hedging because he was running against a conservative in Texas and needed moderates to swing his way.

    I think you'd be surprised, or will be surprised, when you hear more from the guy. I spent a bunch of time recently with some of his campaign staff and they're pretty progressive people that believe in his progressiveness.
    https://www-independent-co-uk.cdn.am...-a8687666.html my qualm with Beto has a lot more do with his congressional voting record, and his membership in the the New Democrat Coalition which is openly moderate, pro-corporate, and de-regulatory. As for being "a progressive", he was asked directly and wouldnt respond. I'm sure he has many staffers and volunteers who are liberal and excited, but they arent the ones who cast the votes.
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  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    I didnít realize Beto, Bernie, and Booker were the only three options. Perhaps we can try another letter of the alphabet.

    Pathetic to see people repeating the mistakes of 2016 by focusing their support on only one candidate so early, especially an old established candidate. Itís going to discourage good young Progressives from stepping up.
    Biden
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  10. #290

    2020 Democratic Presidential Nominees

    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    I didnít realize Beto, Bernie, and Booker were the only three options. Perhaps we can try another letter of the alphabet.

    Pathetic to see people repeating the mistakes of 2016 by focusing their support on only one candidate so early, especially an old established candidate. Itís going to discourage good young Progressives from stepping up.
    I have posted a few times that my preferred candidates are some combo of Gillibrand, Brown, and Harris.

    You brought up Bernie, Ph. I would be thrilled with a candidate as left as Bernie to join the list above, but I just canít see it happening in such a crowded field. 2016 was a unique circumstance where Clinton and the DNC dissuaded Clintonís competition from even bothering to run, which opened the door for Bernie.

    I think youíre really just arguing with yourself and folks like Shoo, Sig, ChrisL, etc. I talk about younger and more progressive candidates all the time. So does mdmh to a lesser extent.
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  11. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strickland33 View Post
    I have posted a few times that my preferred candidates are some combo of Gillibrand, Brown, and Harris.

    You brought up Bernie, Ph. I would be thrilled with a candidate as left as Bernie to join the list above, but I just canít see it happening in such a crowded field. 2016 was a unique circumstance where Clinton and the DNC dissuaded Clintonís competition from even bothering to run, which opened the door for Bernie.
    Yeah. And I could see 2020 being a circumstance where Bernie bros and other Progressives dissuade other Progressives from even bothering to run. But in this case, it would be so Bernie would corner the market of Progressives to split the moderate/centrist/people who don't want Bernie vote.

  12. #292
    Iím not sure Bernie can beat Trump. Beto ruins Trump, yíall might want to keep that in some consideration.

    Beto is a good dude and the type of candidate that America needs, we donít need the loud and vocal fringe ruining another election. Bernie needs to go away.

  13. #293
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    Pretty much. Beto strikes me as someone who felt he needed to be as Progressive as Texas could handle in order to compete vs. Cruz. If he plans to run against Cornyn, he'll probably stay that way. If he plans to run nationally, he'll tack further left.

    I think Progressives need to understand that they don't have to move further left as the party moves left. That's a dick move that will just breed discontent. The Progressive left should be focused on marketing ideas to a broader audience rather than trying to brand people as not like them. Convince them, not convict them.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Yeah. And I could see 2020 being a circumstance where Bernie bros and other Progressives dissuade other Progressives from even bothering to run. But in this case, it would be so Bernie would corner the market of Progressives to split the moderate/centrist/people who don't want Bernie vote.
    I havenít seen that happening, though. And Beto isnít a progressive. Fwiw, Our Revolution has been incredibly supportive to down ballot candidates and initiatives.
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  15. #295
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    Being honest, if there was a "purity test" Bernie wouldnt even pass it. He just happens to have the best politics of the presumed field. I want a liberal populist "champion of the people" type candidate that actually stands for their beliefs. Andrew Gillum, before he started triangulating, was that type of candidate. Beto was never that guy.
    Draxx them sklounst

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Pretty much. Beto strikes me as someone who felt he needed to be as Progressive as Texas could handle in order to compete vs. Cruz. If he plans to run against Cornyn, he'll probably stay that way. If he plans to run nationally, he'll tack further left.

    I think Progressives need to understand that they don't have to move further left as the party moves left. That's a dick move that will just breed discontent. The Progressive left should be focused on marketing ideas to a broader audience rather than trying to brand people as not like them. Convince them, not convict them.
    I think youíre conflating progressives in general with your experience of MHB and mdmh in particular.

    And I have yet to see evidence of what you are speculating that Bernie is doing.
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  17. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strickland33 View Post
    I havenít seen that happening, though. And Beto isnít a progressive. Fwiw, Our Revolution has been incredibly supportive to down ballot candidates and initiatives.
    Well yeah. That's my fear. They'll keep them down ballot instead of in the primary.

    I don't know why you keep saying that I'm saying Beto is a Progressive. When I'm talking about Beto, I say Beto. When I'm talking about Progressives, I say Progressives.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Pretty much. Beto strikes me as someone who felt he needed to be as Progressive as Texas could handle in order to compete vs. Cruz. If he plans to run against Cornyn, he'll probably stay that way. If he plans to run nationally, he'll tack further left.

    I think Progressives need to understand that they don't have to move further left as the party moves left. That's a dick move that will just breed discontent. The Progressive left should be focused on marketing ideas to a broader audience rather than trying to brand people as not like them. Convince them, not convict them.
    The other thing is that Betoís record exists. I donít know why you wonít engage with his actual voting record. Itís weird, man. Even before he was a National darling, he was a politician with a voting record that looked a lot different from his rhetoric.
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  19. #299

    2020 Democratic Presidential Nominees

    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Well yeah. That's my fear. They'll keep them down ballot instead of in the primary.

    I don't know why you keep saying that I'm saying Beto is a Progressive. When I'm talking about Beto, I say Beto. When I'm talking about Progressives, I say Progressives.
    Your claim was that Bernie is not letting progressives like Beto into the mix, just like Clinton did with the young Dem bench in 2016. Your argument is also really slippery, too. Goalposts are moving too much and youíre fighting with yourself, man. Iím out.
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  20. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strickland33 View Post
    The other thing is that Betoís record exists. I donít know why you wonít engage with his actual voting record. Itís weird, man. Even before he was a National darling, he was a politician with a voting record that looked a lot different from his rhetoric.
    Because I'm not trying to claim he's a Progressive. I do think he will tack further left if he's running for President as opposed to running in Texas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strickland33 View Post
    Your claim was that Bernie is not letting progressives like Beto into the mix, just like Clinton did with the young Dem bench in 2016. Your argument is also really slippery, too. Goalposts are moving too much and youíre fighting with yourself, man. Iím out.
    No it wasn't. My claim was that Bernie's supporters are not going to let Progressives into the mix. The complete fealty to Bernie and early assault on Beto 23 months before the election were a sign they'll use the One True Progressive argument against actual Progressives too.

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