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Thread: 2020 Democratic Presidential Nominees

  1. #6301
    RJ, free public college isnít going to prevent kids from going to private schools. Sure maybe some of the kids on the fringes will opt instead for public universities, but that doesnít necessarily mean that kids will lose spots as a result.
    Birds arenít real

  2. #6302
    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    If Dems hadn't chickened out in 2009 on the public option, we wouldn't be having the healthcare problem. We'd have gotten rid of most of private insurance by now. If the Dems didn't chicken out and get rid of the law banning negotiating of RX pricing, we'd be much stronger now.

    There are many things we can and should do, but forgiving all college debt is one policy that will help Trump get re-elected.

    I also notice you didn't dispute the collateral damage of free public college. Watch for what happens after Trump loses for something that can work.
    I'm not individually debating issues with you because we can just agree to disagree. But how about the actual economic arguments rather than the optics?

    The govt owns over a trillion just in public debt, most of which is student debt. That's a big asset for the US! But, they don't recoup anywhere close to that amount. They lose $40BN a year just administering the debt, then a further $150-250BN a year based on fair value estimates! It's like 36% of the assets the govt owns.

    Cancellation would have a meaningful stimulus effect as measured by GDP and employment and only moderate effects on the federal budget deficit, interest rates, and inflation. It's the fiscal conservative play, and addresses concerns over skyrocketing cost of education.

  3. #6303
    PM a mod to cement your internet status forever RJKarl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AsesinoDeTortugas View Post
    RJ, free public college isnít going to prevent kids from going to private schools. Sure maybe some of the kids on the fringes will opt instead for public universities, but that doesnít necessarily mean that kids will lose spots as a result.
    There would a lot of kids who get into Top 50 private schools who opt to go to Top 50 state schools to save their family $100-200,000 in expenses. To think that won't happen to a lot of middle class families is being unrealistic. Is there a real difference in getting a degree from Berkley versus USC? Wake vs. UNC?

    The same would also be true in lower level but similarly rated schools.

    This problem would likely become even more pronounced for families that have multiple kids in college at the same time.

  4. #6304
    PM a mod to cement your internet status forever RJKarl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TownieDeac View Post
    I'm not individually debating issues with you because we can just agree to disagree. But how about the actual economic arguments rather than the optics?

    The govt owns over a trillion just in public debt, most of which is student debt. That's a big asset for the US! But, they don't recoup anywhere close to that amount. They lose $40BN a year just administering the debt, then a further $150-250BN a year based on fair value estimates! It's like 36% of the assets the govt owns.

    Cancellation would have a meaningful stimulus effect as measured by GDP and employment and only moderate effects on the federal budget deficit, interest rates, and inflation. It's the fiscal conservative play, and addresses concerns over skyrocketing cost of education.
    That makes no sense. Are you saying the interest rate doesn't cover any expenses?

    The feds guarantee most of the loans rather than making them. If they were "forgiven", the government would still have to pay the full amount to the originator or cause major losses.

    There's only about 10-11% default rate. https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releas...ult-rate-falls

    What happens to the freshmen that enter college the day after the forgiveness and need to borrow money or only those currently in debt beneficiaries of this largess?

  5. #6305
    Quote Originally Posted by Grabs Turds Bare View Post
    Donald Trump is probably my perfect policy president, but I really am purple. I love me some baby-killin', prison reform, marijuana legalization, gay rights, etc. I'm socially blue. But I'm red as fuck fiscally.
    Um given the above did you mean to say that Donald Trump is the opposite of your perfect policy President?

    Name one fiscally responsible Trump policy. Like a single one.

  6. #6306
    PM a mod to cement your internet status forever RJKarl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 06deacon View Post
    Um given the above did you mean to say that Donald Trump is the opposite of your perfect policy President?

    Name one fiscally responsible Trump policy. Like a single one.
    How about Trump announcing new tariffs on Chinese good this morning? That's sounds responsible.

  7. #6307
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    Quote Originally Posted by AsesinoDeTortugas View Post
    RJ, free public college isnít going to prevent kids from going to private schools. Sure maybe some of the kids on the fringes will opt instead for public universities, but that doesnít necessarily mean that kids will lose spots as a result.
    Much like free public K-12 education doesnít prevent kids from going to private K-12 schools.

  8. #6308
    Quote Originally Posted by Wakeforest22890 View Post
    Also by a 56-38 polling in the most recent Quinnipiac poll independents believe Donald is racist v not a racist. But yeah everyone thinks the democrats are ďreachingĒ!
    "America is tired of the race thing"

    - Independent Voters

  9. #6309
    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    That makes no sense. Are you saying the interest rate doesn't cover any expenses?

    The feds guarantee most of the loans rather than making them. If they were "forgiven", the government would still have to pay the full amount to the originator or cause major losses.

    There's only about 10-11% default rate. https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releas...ult-rate-falls

    What happens to the freshmen that enter college the day after the forgiveness and need to borrow money or only those currently in debt beneficiaries of this largess?
    In 2010, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated 55% of loans had private or third party origination. Between 2011 and 2016, the share of privately originated student loans fell by nearly 90%. Mostly this is because of a tiny provision in ACA that more or less eliminates private loan origination. So for any loan older than 2010, you're right, the govt guaranteed those (meaning taxpayers footed the bill yet again for defaulting loans). But for the better part of the past decade, the govt has been borrowing at 2.8%, and lending at 6.8% for a 4% markup, more or less levying another tax. The money they do get back and don't spend on administration (an absurd $40BN a year) they spend predominately on Pell grants ($36 BN a year).

    How about instead of robbing Peter to pay Paul we just make it more affordable to go to college, full-stop? Debt forgiveness is one plan, free college is another. There are also plans that include debt forgiveness tied to service, business ownership, etc. that work for the more small-minded among us.

  10. #6310
    Iím pretty sure fiscal conservative these days just means you like lower taxes. They use to pretend lower taxes were always offset by spending deductions but now that myth doesnít even need to be spread.

  11. #6311
    PM a mod to cement your internet status forever RJKarl's Avatar
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    The interest pays for the overhead. If there are no loans, that $40B doesn't come from anywhere else or stop investing in other things.

    When you say "free college" , is that free all college? Is Wake going to be free?

    Whose plan includes room, board, books and other costs?

    What about the kids who start school now and have to borrow money? Why should they have to pay it back but current borrowers don't?

    I have no problem with a public service deduction for loans or other quid pro quo but simply giving away over $1.6T for nothing is a bad idea and one that will re-elect Trump.

  12. #6312
    #nowecant
    We're going to be good again.

  13. #6313
    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    The interest pays for the overhead. If there are no loans, that $40B doesn't come from anywhere else or stop investing in other things.

    When you say "free college" , is that free all college? Is Wake going to be free?

    Whose plan includes room, board, books and other costs?

    What about the kids who start school now and have to borrow money? Why should they have to pay it back but current borrowers don't?

    I have no problem with a public service deduction for loans or other quid pro quo but simply giving away over $1.6T for nothing is a bad idea and one that will re-elect Trump.
    lol jesus i quit

  14. #6314
    RJ, you always say that millennials and young voters donít vote enough, right? This would be an incredibly popular policy proposal for that demographic, popular enough that it could possibly attract a large amount of first time voters. I donít know exactly why youíre so sure that free college or loan forgiveness is such a slam dunk for the GOP, but even if it were a motivating factor for people to vote for Trump, I think it would be easily offset and overcome by those young voters you malign so often.
    Birds arenít real

  15. #6315
    PM a mod to cement your internet status forever RJKarl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TownieDeac View Post
    lol jesus i quit
    If all schools aren't free, you will make access for the middle class to high end, exclusive schools much tougher.

  16. #6316
    PM a mod to cement your internet status forever RJKarl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AsesinoDeTortugas View Post
    RJ, you always say that millennials and young voters donít vote enough, right? This would be an incredibly popular policy proposal for that demographic, popular enough that it could possibly attract a large amount of first time voters. I donít know exactly why youíre so sure that free college or loan forgiveness is such a slam dunk for the GOP, but even if it were a motivating factor for people to vote for Trump, I think it would be easily offset and overcome by those young voters you malign so often.
    I said cancellation of debt would be a GOP wet dream not "free college". They are two different issues.

    It would motivate some millennials, but it would also invigorate tons of of Joe Six Pack voters and drive a lot more resentment for the "elites".

    What do the people who don't have college debt get? If it's only a bonanza for college grads and the middle finger to the other 75% of the public, it's a loser.

    No one has answered what will happen to the new kids in college who have to borrow money for non-tuition expenses at public schools or for all expenses at private schools? Why won't anyone answer this?

  17. #6317
    Scott "Rufio" Feather
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakeforest22890 View Post
    And one last Tulsi point: if she simply disavows Assad and comes out as against him just once instead of continuing to equivocate and ignore the question, this could easily have been avoided. She literally has not answered the point blank question if she views him as a murderer or answered why (or how) she went to visit him on her own accord.

    Youíre right that it shouldnít be that big an issue. It only is because she hasnít done what any politician would do. This begs the question of why.
    Because she has principles against American interventionism and war.

  18. #6318
    So she refuses to condemn a dictator who is responsible for tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of deaths?

    Explain how that makes sense.

  19. #6319
    Scott "Rufio" Feather
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakeforest22890 View Post
    So she refuses to condemn a dictator who is responsible for tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of deaths?

    Explain how that makes sense.
    She has point blank said she believes Assad has done what he has been accused of.

    It makes sense if she wants to make changes via diplomacy and not military interventionism. Which is exactly why the establishment can't stand her.

  20. #6320
    She has said ďifĒ there is evidence he has committed war crimes then he should be prosecuted. She visited Aleppo with Assad - a location which he directly attacked with chemical weapons - and then took two years to admit that he was responsible for the attacks. However despite all this, she still maintains ďifĒ he committed war crimes then he should be prosecuted while also ignoring evidence from international agencies as well as our own intelligence that he has in fact committed such crimes.

    At best sheís intellectually dishonest and at worst sheís intentionally turning an eye to his crimes for some unknown reason. Nobody is asking her to personally prosecute Assad or for America to lead such an effort - she simply wonít even condemn his actions.

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