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2020 Democratic Presidential Nominees

A perfect example is about healthcare. You can either scare the people by saying "I'm going to end all private insurance" or "I am going to allow you more choices" to get to universal coverage and the elimination of private insurance for basic coverage.

You scare tens of millions with the former versus telling people they can buy into Medicare for less and see the market really work. The reality is you can get to universal coverage quicker, easier and with much less backlash by offering Medicare buy-in to every individual and company.

It's simple, easily understandable and gets you to where all want to be. But the far left wants it their way even if it means four more years of Trump by scaring millions into voting for him.
 
I understand neoliberal as shorthand for privatizing public services, reducing regulations, and the general cutting of government spending or intervention

many of the items on the list are in conflict with how I understand the term

Think this is probably it in a nutshell. On the left there is a pretty wide split between the strategy of trying to get back to "normal" vs complete upheaval of the system. Much of the other bullet points is based on incremental, technocratic solutions (back to normal). Neoliberalism represents the status quo ante-Trump to a lot of leftists. Those leftists maybe agree with 50-75% of the above, but disagree with how to get it done and who should lead efforts. The "pragmatism over populism" line is basically "let the market figure it out" but for govt.

Fair enough. I find myself agreeing with a lot of people who call themselves neoliberal, but I guess it seems like a different brand than the neoliberalism that juice and the jacobin side of the left derides. I for one, wholly reject "things were fine before let's get back to normal" politics (though I don't think the status quo was particularly technocratic either). And I see your interpretation of the pramatism over populism line, I knew when I posted it that was the one most likely to get push back. But I look at it a little differently.

Put aside for a second how unlikely it is that the democrats will have a majority, let alone a super-majority in the Senate. Even with the dream result in 2020, there is still only so much legislative space to go around. I imagine even the Bernie or bust folks would concede you can't do the full 80 trillion dollar makeover overnight. So it becomes a question of legislative priorities. And for me, where the pragmatism comes in, is what should those priorities be? For me, it makes sense that it should be an effort to balance policies that do the very most good for people (the most important thing) and are the most popular/well supported by the public (also important!).

I haven't sit down to give it a whole lot of thought, but for me, I think I'd want to focus on a few things first.

1. Fix democracy. I don't a single particular policy to point to here, but we need to protect our elections and make it super easy to register and vote. Automatic registration should be the norm. Expand early voting, more voting locations, especially in low SES areas. I'd support voting national holiday (even compulsory voting, though I'm not sure of the politics of that). Fix gerrymandering. Some kind of anti corruptions package to help with the lobbying/money in politics problem. I think this has the benefit of correcting some pretty awful injustices that are happening today and strengthening the coalition to help a more progressive agenda going forward.

2. Give poor people more money, especially poor kids. Michael Bennet has gotten some shit on here as a neoliberal shill, but the American Family Act with Sherrod Brown is awesome. $300 per month for every kid up to age 6, $250 a month for kids over 6, with no phase in. This would reduce the number of children in poverty by ~40%. That's about 4.5 MILLION children no longer in poverty. It would also reduce the number of adults in poverty by 10%, (~3.2 million adults). It would cut deep poverty, kids living on 50% or less of the poverty line, by 50%. That's 1.8 million children who were living on less than $12,000 per year for a family of 3. Could this be improved on, probably. I'd like it to be a bit more generous. But I'd argue this bill would do more as much for well being of poor people in American as any single policy from the left this cycle, and we could fully fund it by repealing just a fraction of the TCJA.

To be continued...
 
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2. Give poor people more money, especially poor kids. Michael Bennet has gotten some shit on here as a neoliberal shill, but the American Family Act with Sherrod Brown is awesome. $300 per month for every kid up to age 65, $250 a month for kids over 6, with no phase in. This would reduce the number of children in poverty by ~40%. That's about 4.5 MILLION children no longer in poverty. It would also reduce the number of adults in poverty by 10%, (~3.2 million adults). It would cut deep poverty, kids living on 50% or less of the poverty line, by 50%. That's 1.8 million children who were living on less than $12,000 per year for a family of 3. Could this be improved on, probably. I'd like it to be a bit more generous. But I'd argue this bill would do more as much for well being of poor people in American as any single policy from the left this cycle, and we could fully fund it by repealing just a fraction of the TCJA.

Older Boomers gonna be so mad...
 
Fair enough. I find myself agreeing with a lot of people who call themselves neoliberal, but I guess it seems like a different brand than the neoliberalism that juice and the jacobin side of the left derides. I for one, wholly reject "things were fine before let's get back to normal" politics (though I don't think the status quo was particularly technocratic either). And I see your interpretation of the pramatism over populism line, I knew when I posted it that was the one most likely to get push back. But I look at it a little differently.

who are some public intellectuals that consider themselves neoliberal that you agree with?

I think the wikipedia article does a good job with the term, noting its shift in usage/meaning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism
 
Quickly on healthcare. It's clear we need to make big changes, and it should be a high priority for the next administration. We need true universal coverage, and we need to take big steps to rein in costs. And it could very well be that a single payer system is the best way to do that. I'm definitively sympathetic to the idea. It's probably the "technocratic" solution. But the absolute certainty with which team Bernie claims M4A is the only way, and every other solution is MURDERING people, is kinda frustrating. It takes a special kind of arrogance to look around the world at all the countries who are successfully taking care of their populations with a variety of systems (pretty much none of which resemble M4A), and say, nope, we are ignoring all of that, our way is the only way.

And even if you do believe that they are right, that M4A is truly the best solution (maybe it is!), how certain are you that that is case? Because unless you are absolutely sure it is better that all the other alternatives out there (several of which also result in true universal coverage and cost control), it seems like a mistake to die on that hill. Because M4A is going to take a herculean effort. It's clearly less popular with the public than the other alternatives. Obviously it remakes our entire health industry and destroys the entire insurance industry. And even if you believe the rosiest projections for cost savings, you still have to find the money to pay for it which would require a complete change/shift in the way we collect taxes in this country, and the very real possibility that some people end up worse off. I find it hard to believe that you could get much else done legislatively, and depending on a number of factors, it could have significant electoral consequences too.

It just seems to me that if we can get most or nearly all the way to the ultimate goal with a more incremental (*shudder*) plan that is much more popular with the public, allowing more time and money to be freed up for other items on the progressive agenda, that maybe that might be the way to go.
 
I understand neoliberal as shorthand for privatizing public services, reducing regulations, and the general cutting of government spending or intervention

many of the items on the list are in conflict with how I understand the term

who are some public intellectuals that consider themselves neoliberal that you agree with?

I think the wikipedia article does a good job with the term, noting its shift in usage/meaning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

By public intellectual, do you mean "dudes I follow on twitter" ?

I think you guys are probably right, I am pretty ignorant about the history and breadth of info out there about neoliberalism. I'm just not sure what to call myself. A free market progressive?
 
A good thread from Eve Ewing that includes a helpful definition:

 
Quickly on healthcare. It's clear we need to make big changes, and it should be a high priority for the next administration. We need true universal coverage, and we need to take big steps to rein in costs. And it could very well be that a single payer system is the best way to do that. I'm definitively sympathetic to the idea. It's probably the "technocratic" solution. But the absolute certainty with which team Bernie claims M4A is the only way, and every other solution is MURDERING people, is kinda frustrating. It takes a special kind of arrogance to look around the world at all the countries who are successfully taking care of their populations with a variety of systems (pretty much none of which resemble M4A), and say, nope, we are ignoring all of that, our way is the only way.

And even if you do believe that they are right, that M4A is truly the best solution (maybe it is!), how certain are you that that is case? Because unless you are absolutely sure it is better that all the other alternatives out there (several of which also result in true universal coverage and cost control), it seems like a mistake to die on that hill. Because M4A is going to take a herculean effort. It's clearly less popular with the public than the other alternatives. Obviously it remakes our entire health industry and destroys the entire insurance industry. And even if you believe the rosiest projections for cost savings, you still have to find the money to pay for it which would require a complete change/shift in the way we collect taxes in this country, and the very real possibility that some people end up worse off. I find it hard to believe that you could get much else done legislatively, and depending on a number of factors, it could have significant electoral consequences too.

It just seems to me that if we can get most or nearly all the way to the ultimate goal with a more incremental (*shudder*) plan that is much more popular with the public, allowing more time and money to be freed up for other items on the progressive agenda, that maybe that might be the way to go.

Yeah - but a successful campaign doesn't start with a compromise position. It's negotiating/advocacy 101.
 
Fair enough. I find myself agreeing with a lot of people who call themselves neoliberal, but I guess it seems like a different brand than the neoliberalism that juice and the jacobin side of the left derides. I for one, wholly reject "things were fine before let's get back to normal" politics (though I don't think the status quo was particularly technocratic either). And I see your interpretation of the pramatism over populism line, I knew when I posted it that was the one most likely to get push back. But I look at it a little differently.

Put aside for a second how unlikely it is that the democrats will have a majority, let alone a super-majority in the Senate. Even with the dream result in 2020, there is still only so much legislative space to go around. I imagine even the Bernie or bust folks would concede you can't do the full 80 trillion dollar makeover overnight. So it becomes a question of legislative priorities. And for me, where the pragmatism comes in, is what should those priorities be? For me, it makes sense that it should be an effort to balance policies that do the very most good for people (the most important thing) and are the most popular/well supported by the public (also important!).

I haven't sit down to give it a whole lot of thought, but for me, I think I'd want to focus on a few things first.

1. Fix democracy. I don't a single particular policy to point to here, but we need to protect our elections and make it super easy to register and vote. Automatic registration should be the norm. Expand early voting, more voting locations, especially in low SES areas. I'd support voting national holiday (even compulsory voting, though I'm not sure of the politics of that). Fix gerrymandering. Some kind of anti corruptions package to help with the lobbying/money in politics problem. I think this has the benefit of correcting some pretty awful injustices that are happening today and strengthening the coalition to help a more progressive agenda going forward.

2. Give poor people more money, especially poor kids. Michael Bennet has gotten some shit on here as a neoliberal shill, but the American Family Act with Sherrod Brown is awesome. $300 per month for every kid up to age 6, $250 a month for kids over 6, with no phase in. This would reduce the number of children in poverty by ~40%. That's about 4.5 MILLION children no longer in poverty. It would also reduce the number of adults in poverty by 10%, (~3.2 million adults). It would cut deep poverty, kids living on 50% or less of the poverty line, by 50%. That's 1.8 million children who were living on less than $12,000 per year for a family of 3. Could this be improved on, probably. I'd like it to be a bit more generous. But I'd argue this bill would do more as much for well being of poor people in American as any single policy from the left this cycle, and we could fully fund it by repealing just a fraction of the TCJA.

To be continued...

Kids up to 65?????
 
Yeah - but a successful campaign doesn't start with a compromise position. It's negotiating/advocacy 101.

True, but Bernie supporters don't want to negotiate for shit. They honestly think anything but Bernie's plan is not a change.
 
it is kinda funny, but it's also talking about the presidential race in the one tweet and Congress in the other

wouldn't surprise me if they were significantly different
 
Weird for a socialist to laugh at prioritizing polls over money.
 
It was my understanding that fundraising is an important indicator in House elections because there is so little polling done for individual House races.

Bernie's fundraising numbers were great - I love that he got a ton of donations from teachers. Pete also announced strong numbers. Booker was well behind those guys, but still his best fundraising quarter to date.
 
I wonder if Mayor Pete is going to spend his money in Nov-Feb when primaries in peoples' minds. He raised over $19M in Q3.
 
Quickly on healthcare.

...

It just seems to me that if we can get most or nearly all the way to the ultimate goal with a more incremental (*shudder*) plan that is much more popular with the public, allowing more time and money to be freed up for other items on the progressive agenda, that maybe that might be the way to go.

Ignoring the rest of this and conceding a point I'm not sure I agree with (popular sentiment prefers incremental change to M4A), what does incremental change include? Just bring the public option back?

The hard part is that you're playing ball against people staking out a position so far to the right that when you make incremental change, it's so easily rolled back and leaves people vulnerable all over again.

I like a progressive pragmatism that tries to help the highest number of people the most with low-hanging fruit. And I liked the approaches around enfranchisement and poverty reduction you mentioned above. Is there a candidate you think is representing these positions best at the moment?

It seems to me that Bernie takes the best moral position, Warren takes the most pragmatic approach, and most of the rest aren't really very interested in progressive change.
 
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