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2020 Democratic Presidential Nominees

One of my issues with Bernie is his support feels really cultish.
 
TownieDeac said:
In 2008, the Democratic party took over the NY State Senate for the first time in over 40 years. Lis was spokeswoman for the leader of the Independent Democratic Caucus, a group of four democratic state senators who defected from the majority and refused to support the new majority leader. This led to Republicans taking back the state house in 2010, and since then the IDC has pushed an agenda that favors working with the Republican party over the progressives that have taken control of the Democratic party in the state. Everyone who was in the IDC in 2018 was primaried by a progressive as part of the Blue Wave, and 7 of 8 IDC members lost their seats.

She has been an outspoken opponent of the progressive movement within the party for a couple decades now, a craven careerist and attack dog on center-right and center-left campaigns. You need only look at her twitter feed since joining Pete's team to see more.
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Got it, thanks.
 
TownieDeac said:
This is a perfect encapsulation of what's wrong with politics in America.
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There are times to be an idealist and there are times to be a pragmatist. This is the time to be a pragmatist. If Democrats can't coalesce around that notion then we're in for another shitty four years.
 
MHBDemon said:
Counterpoint: this is not a time for pragmatism.
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If not, enjoy what Trump will do to the bulk of your adult life. He will re-energize racism even more. The poor will get cuts in all their aid. The environment will be destroyed. National parks will become mining opportunities.

But let's not be pragmatic and get all of that and much worse.
 
HoosierDeac said:
There are times to be an idealist and there are times to be a pragmatist. This is the time to be a pragmatist. If Democrats can't coalesce around that notion then we're in for another shitty four years.
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The repercussions of what Trump would do in another four years will be felt for decades and decades.
 
I think the argument for idealists is that you're not going to overturn the status quo when it appears to be functioning well. Right now, it's not just an insistence that the wrong ideology is in charge, but there's a pretty vivid consensus that the system (economic, governance, carceral) itself is broken or that the power asymmetries can no longer be tolerated. Why not idealism? How will "pragmatic" solutions result in structural shifts?
 
MHBDemon said:
Counterpoint: this is not a time for pragmatism.
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Sure, the primaries are not the time for pragmatism, but they are also not a time for dickish divisiveness.

Ultimately all that the Dem candidates disagree on are tactics and timeline, not the core objectives.
 
RJKarl said:
That's a total load of crap. You don't take anyone seriously or treat anyone who disagrees with any respect even when they post with respect if they don't genuflect about your candidates or policies.

Can't wait for your response to blame me or Chris or everyone else for making you mad and thus, no accountable. In over a decade, it's never your fault about anything.
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ok boomer
 
Robert M. Pirsig said:
Got it, thanks.
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It’s worth noting, too, that the group that Pete called the cops on last night - NYCC - led the effort to get the IDC out of office in one of the more sprawling electoral transitions in NY state senate history. Look up info on the no-IDC caucus, which you’ll hear more about because folks like Ramos, Biaggi, and Salazar are going places in politics. Lis Smith is toxic. birdman, I was referring to those tweets since she’s a Buttigieg proxy now.
 
Robert M. Pirsig said:
I think the argument for idealists is that you're not going to overturn the status quo when it appears to be functioning well. Right now, it's not just an insistence that the wrong ideology is in charge, but there's a pretty vivid consensus that the system (economic, governance, carceral) itself is broken or that the power asymmetries can no longer be tolerated. Why not idealism? How will "pragmatic" solutions result in structural shifts?
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You can have "pragmatic idealism" versus "radical idealism".

It's idealistic to want to go to single payer or single payer with add-ons at this point in time. You can be "radically idealistic" and say you are going to get rid of all private insurance to get there. You could be "pragmatically idealistic" and be for a universal access to buying into a true Medicare/public option product that will quite quickly render private insurance obsolete quicker than the more "radical" way.

It's idealistic to expand food stamps, rental assistance and other welfare programs. You can be pragmatic and show how to do it.

The concept of forgiving college loans for 95% of the people who have them is a loser as it doesn't help the 70% of Americans who don't go to college or will go to college in the future. Dems will lose if this is a cornerstone promise. However, you could be "pragmatically idealistic" and offer to forgive part of people's debts for doing public service. This could include anything from working in a park to teaching to being a cop to social service jobs or other.

On immigration, getting rid of ICE sounds great as a "radically idealistic" concept to some. However, to many, that's like opening the doors without any security. Most of America supports the Dreamers and more open borders. We can be "pragmatically idealistic" (sadly this should be as mainstream as a BBQ) to support Dreamers and the undocumented with a path to citizenship and reorganizing the border.

Criminal justice reform can be a winner or loser. If anyone running for national office talks about the "radically idealistic" concept about abolishing the police and jails, Trump will win 35+ states. If we talk about real change in charging, sentencing and what are crimes, the "pragmatically idealistic" stance could catch on.
 
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