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2020 Democratic Presidential Nominees

BarcaDeac said:
yeah which is why it's infuriating whenever someone brings up their 401K as a reason to keep Trump. Like my in-laws. They are pretty conservative but despise him because he's a boorish asshole, not as much on policy -- they mostly agree minus, maybe, babies in cages. Voted for Hillary in 16. But they don't like any of the candidates, but DO like how the 401K looks so they might have a tough decision in November.
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I’ve had conversations with coworkers who say this. They say they don’t care about anything but their 401k.

This argument seems to come most frequently from the non-rich who probably have modest middle-class level 401k balances. So it’s just more of the same GOP supporter sentiment - mediocre white people desperate to keep a foothold above others.
 
BarcaDeac said:
yeah which is why it's infuriating whenever someone brings up their 401K as a reason to keep Trump. Like my in-laws. They are pretty conservative but despise him because he's a boorish asshole, not as much on policy -- they mostly agree minus, maybe, babies in cages. Voted for Hillary in 16. But they don't like any of the candidates, but DO like how the 401K looks so they might have a tough decision in November.
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My parents are evangelicals, are Pubs and usually vote Pub and voted Trump in 2016. I was surprised when I was talking to my dad over the holidays that he has been disappointed by Trump for the same reasons you're talking about. And he said he was disappointed because he had thought that Trump had the ability to bring the nation together, and told me not to look at him that way when my jaw hit the floor. Both my parents like Steyer, I guess because he's rich, but don't like Warren, who is ideologically not that different from Steyer. They don't like Buttigieg, even though he would be ideologically more sympatico with them, I'm assuming because of the gay thing. They of course like Bloomberg, but realize he has no path to the nomination, and can support Biden, though aren't enthused by Biden - who is. And my 1 sane sister, who is a registered Dem but is a culturally conservative Catholic, hates Trump and will probably vote Dem this time. And she voted for Trump the last time around. What I have a difficult time believing is how any of them thought Trump would behave differently than he's always behaved once he took office. I've begun to realize the irrational hatred of Hillary really was stronger than I had perceived.
 
06deacon said:
I’ve had conversations with coworkers who say this. They say they don’t care about anything but their 401k.

This argument seems to come most frequently from the non-rich who probably have modest middle-class level 401k balances. So it’s just more of the same GOP supporter sentiment - mediocre white people desperate to keep a foothold above others.
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my FIL is essentially at retirement age and my MIL wants him to retire but they had a few doctors leave his group recently so he is staying on as a sense of obligation. so I get it in a sense that he's going to start using it soon, but I know they have plenty stored away and are going to be just fine.
 
All the more frustrating because both the market and 401(k)s did just as well if not better under Obama and he had to dig out of W's hole (which is a gross thing to say). Setting aside the complete un-Christian selfishness of conservatives who care only about how their 401(k)s are doing -- which is not a new, Trump thing at all -- they're just wrong and have been so hynotized/programmed to believe the lie their minds cannot be changed.
 
Shooshmoo said:
All the more frustrating because both the market and 401(k)s did just as well if not better under Obama and he had to dig out of W's hole (which is a gross thing to say). Setting aside the complete un-Christian selfishness of conservatives who care only about how their 401(k)s are doing -- which is not a new, Trump thing at all -- they're just wrong and have been so hynotized/programmed to believe the lie their minds cannot be changed.
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Yeah, I'm astounded by this whole liking how Trump is handling the economy. Yeah, the market is doing fine. But he ran on bringing back manufacturing, which he has not brought back, and he's running up record deficits at a time when we're not in a recession. Add to that his tariff wars are killing midwestern farmers, at least the 1s who haven't received bailout money, yet he still polls well in IA and WI. And his support there is due to folks buying into his anti immigrant bigotry.
 
Shooshmoo said:
All the more frustrating because both the market and 401(k)s did just as well if not better under Obama and he had to dig out of W's hole (which is a gross thing to say). Setting aside the complete un-Christian selfishness of conservatives who care only about how their 401(k)s are doing -- which is not a new, Trump thing at all -- they're just wrong and have been so hynotized/programmed to believe the lie their minds cannot be changed.
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I am not voting for trump but my portfolio performance this past year was insane.
 
cville deac said:
While I was disappointed in her campaign and tactics, calling her Police State is a gross misrepresentation of her positions as a prosecutor and AG, though I think I realize you're being facetious. Agree or disagree, I thought she defended those positions quite well in interviews. I don't see how she helps Biden that much. And I'm really having trouble thinking of a running mate who would help him. Klobuchar makes some geographical sense, but she lacks charisma. Abrams lacks any experience and has the tax issue. I like Buttigieg, but he also lacks experience, though he could also offer some geographical help. If Biden is going to be a 1 termer, which he probably will be whether he wants to or not, he should have a veep who is ready to step into the position. I think Booker makes the most sense. He has all the requisite experience and is charismatic and likeable. The other person who makes sense to me and who could be a good asset, though he lacks the same level of experience is Castro. Both Booker and Castro would be acceptable to most Dem voters and would make for a strong presumptive nominee for 2024.
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I meant it makes ideological sense to pair Biden with someone marginally to the left of him. No actual lefty wants to share the ticket with Biden, but someone with a whiff of progressivism would help, and as I've already said as a leftist it would make the bitter Biden pill a little easier for me to swallow. And I've joked about her being a cop in the past to plenty of tut tutting on here. The identity politics they could play would be great for liberals.

I don't actually know if they'd beat Trump because fucking nobody does, no matter how much we pretend.
 
ChrisL68 said:
And Obama was a two term president.
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Yes, and he also didn't do a bunch of clearly impeachable shit that should require removal from office or, at the very least, should turn off some people from voting for him. He also didn't sexually assault dozens of women, wasn't an obvious racist and mysogynistic POS, didn't lie 45 times a day, didn't spend all day tweeting nonsense, was not sundowning, didn't pay off pornstars and rape and cheat on his wives, etc. etc.

Otherwise, solid point.
 
cville deac said:
My parents are evangelicals, are Pubs and usually vote Pub and voted Trump in 2016. I was surprised when I was talking to my dad over the holidays that he has been disappointed by Trump for the same reasons you're talking about. And he said he was disappointed because he had thought that Trump had the ability to bring the nation together, and told me not to look at him that way when my jaw hit the floor. Both my parents like Steyer, I guess because he's rich, but don't like Warren, who is ideologically not that different from Steyer. They don't like Buttigieg, even though he would be ideologically more sympatico with them, I'm assuming because of the gay thing. They of course like Bloomberg, but realize he has no path to the nomination, and can support Biden, though aren't enthused by Biden - who is. And my 1 sane sister, who is a registered Dem but is a culturally conservative Catholic, hates Trump and will probably vote Dem this time. And she voted for Trump the last time around. What I have a difficult time believing is how any of them thought Trump would behave differently than he's always behaved once he took office. I've begun to realize the irrational hatred of Hillary really was stronger than I had perceived.
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Trump’s entire life has been built on lying to people about promising what they want to hear. Every facet of his personal and professional life is built on lies and broken trust. Every single thing. It’s who he is. I truly believe that American evangelicals equate wealth with morality. Trump is perhaps the greatest test of that theory, and evangelicals aren’t disappointing. In their minds, God blesses you with wealth, so Trump must be blessed more than most. The stupidest part is that Trump’s lying about much of his wealth. It’s why he’s so protective of his tax returns.
 
Shooshmoo said:
Yes, and he also didn't do a bunch of clearly impeachable shit that should require removal from office or, at the very least, should turn off some people from voting for him. He also didn't sexually assault dozens of women, wasn't an obvious racist and mysogynistic POS, didn't lie 45 times a day, didn't spend all day tweeting nonsense, was not sundowning, didn't pay off pornstars and rape and cheat on his wives, etc. etc.

Otherwise, solid point.
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Those are much better arguments for the dems than stock market performance. We get that you don't need to be convinced not to vote for Trump.
 
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TownieDeac said:
I meant it makes ideological sense to pair Biden with someone marginally to the left of him. No actual lefty wants to share the ticket with Biden, but someone with a whiff of progressivism would help, and as I've already said as a leftist it would make the bitter Biden pill a little easier for me to swallow. And I've joked about her being a cop in the past to plenty of tut tutting on here. The identity politics they could play would be great for liberals.

I don't actually know if they'd beat Trump because fucking nobody does, no matter how much we pretend.
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Which is why I mentioned Castro. He's between Biden and Warren, has a bit of charisma and doesn't appear to be hated by either progressives or moderates.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Those are much better arguments for the dems than stock market performance.
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I don’t think any Dem is making stock market arguments. I think it’s more disputing the one argument that “hold nose vote Trumpers” seem to bring out a lot.
 
Well if anyone is an expert on quotas... it's a Tunnels Leftist with close to 25k posts.

So no argument there.
 
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