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Fire Danny Manning Campaign

Rafi, do you realize how much worse things would be for Wellman if he were at virtually any other P5 school? If this situation happened almost anywhere else with our historical basketball success, he would have been gone years ago, had For Sale signs in his yard, death threats, tons of hate mail, TOILETS!!!, etc, etc. And no one would say that hampers their ability to get the next great coach.

If a coach is scared off by vitriol from a passionate and rightfully-angry fan base, he almost assuredly doesn't have the chops to compete in the ACC.
 
Rafi said:
Really? How? I'm the opposite of LOWF - I think we can win championships in all sports in which we compete, including sports in which we do not have much historical success (football, women's bball, volleyball, etc). It just takes good coaching.
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Yes, I think it's LOWF to think that we can only get a coach that would give a rat's ass about what the fanbase at large, particularly this fanbase, does or thinks. Successful coaches don't bother themselves with that shit.
 
tigerswood said:
Rafi, do you realize how much worse things would be for Wellman if he were at virtually any other P5 school? If this situation happened almost anywhere else with our historical basketball success, he would have been gone years ago, had For Sale signs in his yard, death threats, tons of hate mail, TOILETS!!!, etc, etc. And no one would say that hampers their ability to get the next great coach.
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I don't think this is actually true. Could you provide some example of billboards calling for the firing of an NCAA basketball coach? I'm sure it's probably happened, but it has to be quite rare. I'm genuinely interested to see if there are other examples out there.
 
Rafi isn’t LOWF, No LOWF, you’re LOWF, he thinks we can win championships in sports that we don’t even have a team in, see no Shill you’re the shill.
 
DeacinBama said:
Yes, I think it's LOWF to think that we can only get a coach that would give a rat's ass about what the fanbase at large, particularly this fanbase, does or thinks. Successful coaches don't bother themselves with that shit.
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Successful coaches do not want to get themselves into toxic situations. They're smarter than that, which is why they are successful coaches. I think Wellman is clearly the most toxic part of our situation, in regards to basketball coaches (specifically for his handling of Dino), but I sure do not think the billboard helped.
 
Rafi said:
Successful coaches do not want to get themselves into toxic situations. They're smarter than that, which is why they are successful coaches. I think Wellman is clearly the most toxic part of our situation, in regards to basketball coaches (specifically for his handling of Dino), but I sure do not think the billboard helped.
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We're not talking about Wellman here; we're talking about the fanbase in general - the one that would carry out the public campaign that you're worried about.

Successful coaches bet on themselves, and a public campaign to get rid of a clearly underperforming coach who's been given plenty of opportunity to succeed wouldn't scare away anyone worth having. That is no more true than with Wake's fanbase. I doubt there's a more forgiving and patient fanbase in all of major collegiate athletics.
 
DeacinBama said:
We're not talking about Wellman here; we're talking about the fanbase in general - the one that would carry out the public campaign that you're worried about.

Successful coaches bet on themselves, and a public campaign to get rid of a clearly underperforming coach who's been given plenty of opportunity to succeed wouldn't scare away anyone worth having. That is no more true than with Wake's fanbase. I doubt there's a more forgiving and patient fanbase in all of major collegiate athletics.
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If you think the public "BuzzOut, FireWellman" campaign was successful and should be repeated, then why are we having this conversation again?
 
Rafi said:
If you think the public "BuzzOut, FireWellman" campaign was successful and should be repeated, then why are we having this conversation again?
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because it only half worked...got rid of a horrible coach, but not the brains behind the process. and the terrible coach was someone replaced with someone worse. now we need to finish the WHOLE job
 
tigerswood said:
Rafi, do you realize how much worse things would be for Wellman if he were at virtually any other P5 school? If this situation happened almost anywhere else with our historical basketball success, he would have been gone years ago, had For Sale signs in his yard, death threats, tons of hate mail, TOILETS!!!, etc, etc. And no one would say that hampers their ability to get the next great coach.

If a coach is scared off by vitriol from a passionate and rightfully-angry fan base, he almost assuredly doesn't have the chops to compete in the ACC.
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Yep. Don't need a coach with no cajones. Anybody think Clawson would have been bothered by unhappy fans that had expectations on winning?
 
canadiandeac said:
because it only half worked...got rid of a horrible coach, but not the brains behind the process. and the terrible coach was someone replaced with someone worse. now we need to finish the WHOLE job
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The WHOLE job would include Wellman’s boss as our athletic problems began with his arrival. As for Manning...just leave him in Myrtle Beach and let’s move on.
 
Dean Smith was hanged in effigy. They had a few coaches after him. Tell any sec fball school in the country to be this kind to a losing coach and see their reaction.
 
LOL. First we had Wake football and the Panthers at the same time. Now we have a Wake basketball and Panthers doubleheader.
 
deac87 said:
The WHOLE job would include Wellman’s boss as our athletic problems began with his arrival. As for Manning...just leave him in Myrtle Beach and let’s move on.
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Please, no. Send him back to Kansas from MB.
 
Rafi said:
If you think the public "BuzzOut, FireWellman" campaign was successful and should be repeated, then why are we having this conversation again?
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Never said it was successful, and the most I think one could reasonably infer from what I’ve posted is that I don’t think it did much at all. That’s why I think any coach worth his salt wouldn’t be hindered by a repeat campaign and it’s LOWF to worry about it.
 
Once I fully come around to the “Fire Manning” point of view, the thing that will keep me up at night will be the strong potential for another shitty hire.

We won’t pay up for a “can’t miss” hire. So, even in the hands of a capable person or group, there is a good chance we hire another dud for 4-5 more years before trying again.

I’m sure we all said the same thing last time, but we can’t afford to fuck up the next hire.
 
DeacsATS said:
Once I fully come around to the “Fire Manning” point of view, the thing that will keep me up at night will be the strong potential for another shitty hire.

We won’t pay up for a “can’t miss” hire. So, even in the hands of a capable person or group, there is a good chance we hire another dud for 4-5 more years before trying again.

I’m sure we all said the same thing last time, but we can’t afford to fuck up the next hire.
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I think that Wake has been relegated to the relatively-untested-up-and-comer hiring pool since at least halfway through Bz's time, so I don't think a "can't miss" hire has been on the table in a long time. Manning fell into the up-and-comer category. It was an understandable swing, but ultimately a miss.

I've seen some people on this board (not you, ATS) set clear requirements for this year in order for Manning to keep his job. I've seen those same people argue that letting Wellman hire the next basketball coach is so horrifying that we should keep Manning in order to avoid it. Unless those people have evidence of Wellman's impending retirement, then that's a logical inconsistency that I'll let everyone work out on their own.

Like most Wake fans, I don't particularly trust Wellman to make the next basketball hire, but I trust Manning's ability not to crater what's left of our basketball program even less. Again, unless someone has evidence regarding his retirement, keeping Wellman from making the next basketball hire is essentially a decision to keep Manning indefinitely, and I think we can afford that even less than fucking up the next hire.
 
Well said, Bama.
 
If Wellman hires another who could be considered an "up-and-comer" to follow Danny, that hire should not poison the waters further.

Wake has given Danny Manning 5 years. He now has all his own recruits. This season needs to be very productive in terms of wins and recruits.
 
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