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Would anyone be upset if Manning was fired today.

No, I agree with him. I just didn't bother piping in because I think you douche with bath water. I have been on this planet a long time, and usually people who douche with bath water ignore good advice. You did edit your post though so deep down in your douchiness, you must have understand the douch-oxity of your post.

You know people who douche? With bath water? That's just weird all around.
 
It's time to stop worrying about all the fire Danny talk. There's only one solution to this mess and everyone knows what it is.

TOILETS
 
So David Glenn said today on his radio show in Raleigh that the only sure thing about Danny's Deacs is that "they're bad again."

No surprise there, but it was a shock that he even wasted any breath talking about Wake.
 
That's some serious rewriting of history to say Battle, Rusty, and Childress haven't gotten huge passes from the majority of this board. Go back and read the posts around the Manning hire - retaining Childress was hugely popular, and everyone loved keeping Battle. Regardless, the point still stands - we've had back-to-back coaches either forced or strongly encouraged to retain coaches that are strangers to them. Probably more Fodder to hang on Wellman, but you don't fail to this extent without help. What's sad about Manning is that he got enough talent into the program to be successful - he just couldn't coach it or keep it, which the rest of the staff has a huge hand in.
 
It’s rewriting history to claim you weren’t giving out passes.

The sunshine crew gave them passes but you all give everybody a pass.

Critics saw Childress and Rusty for human shields.
 
That's some serious rewriting of history to say Battle, Rusty, and Childress haven't gotten huge passes from the majority of this board. Go back and read the posts around the Manning hire - retaining Childress was hugely popular, and everyone loved keeping Battle. Regardless, the point still stands - we've had back-to-back coaches either forced or strongly encouraged to retain coaches that are strangers to them. Probably more Fodder to hang on Wellman, but you don't fail to this extent without help. What's sad about Manning is that he got enough talent into the program to be successful - he just couldn't coach it or keep it, which the rest of the staff has a huge hand in.

Could you please post some of these posts that you are referring to?
 
It’s rewriting history to claim you weren’t giving out passes.

The sunshine crew gave them passes but you all give everybody a pass.

Critics saw Childress and Rusty for human shields.
Yup. I've been calling out Childress for years now. To be fair, I think Ron took advantage of both Larue and Chill and their love for WFU, but they are still part of the problem over the last 9 seasons.

The bigger problem though is that we hired two pushover coaches who didn't have a staff and/or allowed one to be forced onto them.
 
That's some serious rewriting of history to say Battle, Rusty, and Childress haven't gotten huge passes from the majority of this board. Go back and read the posts around the Manning hire - retaining Childress was hugely popular, and everyone loved keeping Battle. Regardless, the point still stands - we've had back-to-back coaches either forced or strongly encouraged to retain coaches that are strangers to them. Probably more Fodder to hang on Wellman, but you don't fail to this extent without help. What's sad about Manning is that he got enough talent into the program to be successful - he just couldn't coach it or keep it, which the rest of the staff has a huge hand in.

Battle should not be part of this conversation. He has been on the bench of four very successful coaching regimes (Prosser at Xavier, Prosser at Wake, Gaudio at Wake, Cooley at Providence).
 
I think it's strange how often we give a pass to assistant coaches. Childress is one of the only constants across all of these garbage teams, and people want to promote or retain him? Our fundamentals are as bad as our strategies - if he doesn't bare any responsibility for direct coaching he's still failed to influence consecutive coaches in any meaningful way. If Manning's history as a player fuels his garbage coaching why does anyone assume Childress's doesn't? Kinda reminds me of the Battle stuff while [name redacted] ruined us. Sure there were some very unfortunate extenuating circumstances when Dino took over instead of him, but when [name redacted] was hired there was definitely the "Battle recruits, Jeff coaches" plan being espoused. If problem #1 with Manning and [name redacted] was their complete inability to inspire players or fans, problem #2 for [name redacted] was garbage recruiting, problem #2 for Manning is coaching strategy. When they fail so completely in a known area of weakness, it's not helpful to just really like Rusty Larue because he's such a Wake Forest guy. We're lighting millions of dollars on fire making this program awful - there have to be repercussions for it.

Of course the ultimate responsibility is 100% on the head coach, but hopefully we've learned our lesson about retaining critical assistants during coaching changes. Clawson is an inspiring coach who brought his whole staff with him. Just do that again after Manning is fired. Then just like Clawson has done, hold the staff accountable - the football program has far more excuses to suck than does the basketball program.
Childress has recruited Collins, Crawford, Massoud, Mucious, Brown, Wright and Woods.
 
I have been willing to give Manning the benefit of the doubt due to rather glaring personnel weaknesses, plus the development of John Collins. However, it is impossible to overlook the appalling lack of defense season after season. Improving personnel seems to make no difference in our defense. It continues to stink. Plus, we seem incapable of using the talent we have on the offensive end. With the talent we have in this year's freshman class we would be better offensively if we just told them to play like it is a pick-up game on the playground.

Manning is obviously in over his head.
 
I don't even know what you mean by this. Are you saying all fans do it so it's not unique to us? There are all kinds of posts that think we should retain or promote Chill, there was a ton of support for Rusty even when we were putrid, and nearly 100% unwavering support for Battle.

Didn’t Coach Lobo, an assistant, essentially get blamed for the entire collapse of Jim Grobe’s coaching career at Wake?
 
Childress has recruited Collins, Crawford, Massoud, Mucious, Brown, Wright and Woods.
None of those guys are particularly impressive gets at Wake Forest. And none of them have made a lasting impact of any significance. All lost to multiple teams with much less talent. The fact that he's the best recruiter amongst a pitiful staff does not make him a good coach.
 
Battle should not be part of this conversation. He has been on the bench of four very successful coaching regimes (Prosser at Xavier, Prosser at Wake, Gaudio at Wake, Cooley at Providence).

See, this is what I'm talking about. For a lot of reasons Battle shouldn't have been kept on when [Redacted] was hired. And the results of recruiting speak for themselves. He was Prosser's guy (lol at calling Gaudio's head coaching sting at Wake a "very successful coaching regime" by the way). If you've met Battle he makes 100% sense as Prosser's guy but far less as the head of recruiting behind [Redacted]. It's no secret his heart wasn't in it. If you asked him why he stayed the first reason he gave was because he wanted Jordan to be able to finish high school before they left. Then he ends up with another Prosser-like long-time friend in Cooley after a year away from the game and it's a perfect opportunity for him.

Battle's a great assistant coach and a better person, but it was the wrong situation for him. It was an emotional decision to keep him, and it was a mistake. We make a lot of those. Dino as head coach, retaining Battle, promoting Rusty, sticking with Childress... Arguably all emotional mistakes, and I think mostly underrated in their impact.
 
DC, it's annoying to see you getting all self-righteous defending what some of us were saying as early as the day after Skip died. You gave us shit for years and now you're having a come to Jesus moment and criticizing people who agreed with you?
 
See, this is what I'm talking about. For a lot of reasons Battle shouldn't have been kept on when [name redacted] was hired. And the results of recruiting speak for themselves. He was Prosser's guy (lol at calling Gaudio's head coaching sting at Wake a "very successful coaching regime" by the way). If you've met Battle he makes 100% sense as Prosser's guy but far less as the head of recruiting behind [name redacted]. It's no secret his heart wasn't in it. If you asked him why he stayed the first reason he gave was because he wanted Jordan to be able to finish high school before they left. Then he ends up with another Prosser-like long-time friend in Cooley after a year away from the game and it's a perfect opportunity for him.

Battle's a great assistant coach and a better person, but it was the wrong situation for him. It was an emotional decision to keep him, and it was a mistake. We make a lot of those. Dino as head coach, retaining Battle, promoting Rusty, sticking with Childress... Arguably all emotional mistakes, and I think mostly underrated in their impact.

Well maybe I misunderstood, but this isn't what I thought you were talking about. We can talk about whether it was the right decision or not to keep him on (although I don't think it was an emotional one, or at least not an entirely emotional one), but I think it's fairly ridiculous to lump him in as a reason for the failure of the basketball program alongside Manning, [name redacted], and their otherwise ragtag team of assistants. He was and is a very high quality assistant with a long track record of success.

And, yes, Gaudio had a very successful tenure as head coach. Maybe not as successful as it could have been or even should have been, and it was probably headed in the wrong direction, but compared to Prosser's prior two years and to the eight years since Gaudio was fired?

ETA: and for the record, I am pretty sure I was critical of the decision to keep Childress when Manning was hired. I don't remember what I said about the assistants when [Redacted] was hired, was probably pro-Battle and anti-Rusty, but that's just a guess.
 
I just did a search for DCDeac's posts about Rusty. He's been blaming assistants to deflect criticism of the head coaches for years.
 
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Lol, dummy, I didn't ask for you to be banned. I just pointed out that I think doxxing should be a bannable offense. I actually suggested you edit it so you *wouldn't* be banned.

I'll be waiting patiently for you to apologise for your very offensive "phuk yourself". Will the mods do anything? Nah!

If you are expecting him to go to the UK to say he’s sorry, you’ll probably be waiting a good month of Sundays.
 
I just did a search for DCDeac's posts about Rusty. He's been blaming assistants to deflect criticism of the head coaches for years.

I'm confused, earlier you disagreed with me by saying Wake fans actually were critical of assistant coaches. Now you found an example of that from me and it's somehow also negative. When you argue every side, I guess you can never be wrong. Maybe spend more time discussing the point instead of making so many of your posts gotchas or I-told-you-so's.

On a side note, pretty sure the only real posting I've done on Rusty was around the Haas recruitment. So if you're defending Rusty for how he handled that mess, good luck constructing a win out of it. That was all him.

Back to the actual topic - it cuts both ways. There are plenty of "that modicum of success was really just assistant coach X" when fans dislike a coach. Just like an earlier post somehow credited Childress as recruiting John Collins.

It's not about "deflecting criticism." It's about recognizing that sustained failure like we've seen here since Skip died isn't just one thing. Sure, Wellman is a constant throughout - but he also hired Clawson so it's really not all that unreasonable to think he could make a good basketball hire. I certainly hope past experience dictates finally cutting everyone loose and actually building something from the ground up.
 
I’m saying for years you’ve been exaggerating the extent to which Wake fans defend assistant coaches. You do it to deflect criticism of head coaches and to distract from your own defenses of head coaches. It’s a weird “holier than thou” play.

What you seem to be talking about is the sunshine perspective that the assistant coach who remains is responsible for the progress. That really ended with Battle. You don’t find many people defending Childress the way you claim they do. We still love him as one of our all time great players but almost all of us see the whole deal for what it is.
 
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