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Jeffrey Epstein

Agree, the Clintons are so much more trouble than they are worth at this point.
 
Agree, the Clintons are so much more trouble than they are worth at this point.

agreed, which is why most of us were very disappointed Hillary got the nod in 2016. I mean we just discussed this for a few pages for a rather benign article on Bill, including some on here clearly just launching into accusations without reading the story. IMO, the story was just created to provoke the reaction of the mouthbreathers, like we witnessed.

the republican hatred for the Clintons and Obamas is obscene. of everything Bill has done that is shady, Trump has done much worse but republicans don't care.
 
Yeah, I've seen quotes from 2 of the women that Clinton was nice and didn't do anything untoward on that trip. There were a lot of people on that flight so it would make sense that there wasn't any bad behavior going on on that flight. Doesn't mean Clinton didn't do anything wrong with a minor on other occasions, but to date I haven't heard of such an allegation. And we've only heard of the 1 accusation against Trump in the suit that was nonsuited. So until there are allegations and some due process in both of their cases, it's not fair to refer to either is a child molester.
Even if Clinton was morally prone to do something like that he would have to be a complete and total idiot with his stature and ability to be blackmailed to do so
 
Even if Clinton was morally prone to do something like that he would have to be a complete and total idiot with his stature and ability to be blackmailed to do so

I just finished a bio of J Edgar, who made a living off of illegally wiretapping tons of folks. But 1 of the takeaways I had was of the Kennedy and Nixon years. The incredible recklessness of both Jack and Bobby in their sexual escapades was astounding, even given the era they lived in where the press looked the other way when it came to issues of sex. And with Nixon, it wasn't like Watergate was the only time the Liddy dirty tactics division engaged in break ins, illegal wiretapping and worse. It was alleged that they even broke into Hoover's house with the intent of poisoning him (not the 1st person they allegedly tried to poison). And Hoover knew much of what they were doing and vice-versa. Probably why Felt ended up feeding info to Woodward.

Clinton took office after Hart's boating fiasco, so it was a slightly different world in terms of press reporting, but he was still fairly reckless. Back in the day I didn't believe the groping allegations, thinking that this guy gets as much free ass as he wants - why would he do that. But I've reassessed in recent years and wouldn't be astonished if he did grope women or if he did have sex with minors via his Epstein connection. Powerful people with huge egos often are able to convince themselves that they're invincible.
 
I just finished a bio of J Edgar, who made a living off of illegally wiretapping tons of folks. But 1 of the takeaways I had was of the Kennedy and Nixon years. The incredible recklessness of both Jack and Bobby in their sexual escapades was astounding, even given the era they lived in where the press looked the other way when it came to issues of sex. And with Nixon, it wasn't like Watergate was the only time the Liddy dirty tactics division engaged in break ins, illegal wiretapping and worse. It was alleged that they even broke into Hoover's house with the intent of poisoning him (not the 1st person they allegedly tried to poison). And Hoover knew much of what they were doing and vice-versa. Probably why Felt ended up feeding info to Woodward.

Clinton took office after Hart's boating fiasco, so it was a slightly different world in terms of press reporting, but he was still fairly reckless. Back in the day I didn't believe the groping allegations, thinking that this guy gets as much free ass as he wants - why would he do that. But I've reassessed in recent years and wouldn't be astonished if he did grope women or if he did have sex with minors via his Epstein connection. Powerful people with huge egos often are able to convince themselves that they're invincible.

What's the title of the book? Was it a good read?
 
I mean she was a sex slave not a message therapist but ok.

This is only partially true. Epstein specifically hired her because she was a massage therapist. So that was her official role. In that role, it was not surprising that she would be traveling with them and performing massages for his guests, who would have known that she was a massage therapist.

Epstein took it to another level with her, but not everyone would have been involved in that aspect or have known about it.
 
What's the title of the book? Was it a good read?

Official and Confidential - the secret life of J Edgar Hoover by Anthony Summers. It was written back in the 90s before Felt outed himself, and I've had it on my shelf for a while. Yeah, mostly a decent read. Was less interested in his formative years and already knew about his cross dressing, Tolson, and his mob relations (though not the extent to which he had mob relations). But the last 150 pages or so of the Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon years were downright fascinating. The level of Hoover's corruption, Kennedy's brazenness and Nixon's extralegal undertakings was impressive.
 
I just finished a bio of J Edgar, who made a living off of illegally wiretapping tons of folks. But 1 of the takeaways I had was of the Kennedy and Nixon years. The incredible recklessness of both Jack and Bobby in their sexual escapades was astounding, even given the era they lived in where the press looked the other way when it came to issues of sex. And with Nixon, it wasn't like Watergate was the only time the Liddy dirty tactics division engaged in break ins, illegal wiretapping and worse. It was alleged that they even broke into Hoover's house with the intent of poisoning him (not the 1st person they allegedly tried to poison). And Hoover knew much of what they were doing and vice-versa. Probably why Felt ended up feeding info to Woodward.

Clinton took office after Hart's boating fiasco, so it was a slightly different world in terms of press reporting, but he was still fairly reckless. Back in the day I didn't believe the groping allegations, thinking that this guy gets as much free ass as he wants - why would he do that. But I've reassessed in recent years and wouldn't be astonished if he did grope women or if he did have sex with minors via his Epstein connection. Powerful people with huge egos often are able to convince themselves that they're invincible.

The point is the power, not the sex. These guys grope, assault, harass, rape, etc. women because they are asserting their dominance not because they are desperate to feel a boob.
 
Jeffrey Epstein Update: Court Says Ghislaine Maxwell's Deposition Can't Remain Secret

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/20/9257...hislaine-maxwells-deposition-can-t-remain-sec


A federal court has cleared the path to unseal the transcript of Ghislaine Maxwell's deposition from 2016,a lengthy document that may shed light on the sex-trafficking operation she allegedly ran with the late Jeffrey Epstein that catered to rich and powerful men.
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit affirmed a federal judge's ruling from July, saying the lower court was correct to reject "meritless arguments" from Maxwell, who is accused of procuring young girls for Epstein.
The mandate is a victory for Virginia Giuffre, who has publicly accused Maxwell, Epstein and others of sexually abusing her when she was a minor. It's not yet clear when the transcript will be released, but U.S. District Judge Loretta Preska issued a new order Tuesday saying the parties involved should prepare for its unsealing "as soon as is practicable."
 
Seems like he could blow the whole thing up if he didn’t let “annoying legal reasons” get in the way.

But if he went forward with what he knew and risked his life to take on powerful people, it’s highly likely the public would side with those in power.

While it seems like the problem is the first tweet, the real problem is in the last. People don’t care.

Truth and basic moral decency are potent in this society but they won’t get you rich or powerful. It’s actually part of the reason why Republicans in office are more powerful than Democrats. Democrats would have to fully abandon truth and basic moral decency to unlock full power.
 
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Seems like he could blow the whole thing up if he didn’t let “annoying legal reasons” get in the way.

But if he went forward with what he knew and risked his life to take on powerful people, it’s highly likely the public would side with those in power.

While it seems like the problem is the first tweet, the real problem is in the last. People don’t care.

Truth and basic moral decency are potent in this society but they won’t get you rich or powerful. It’s actually part of the reason why Republicans in office are more powerful than Democrats. Democrats would have to fully abandon truth and basic moral decency to unlock full power.

I mean, he does plainly say Bill Clinton and Bill Gates are dirty in this mess.

But you're right the problem is the last tweet. People have to care in order for things to change, but in this case it's almost worse, the general public venerate the bad actors for the other stuff they've done that is good or entertaining to society.

Feels similar to working on wildlife conservation or climate change...all of our efforts to combat rich and power forces are on the margin and ultimately amount to very little.
 
I mean, he does plainly say Bill Clinton and Bill Gates are dirty in this mess.

But you're right the problem is the last tweet. People have to care in order for things to change, but in this case it's almost worse, the general public venerate the bad actors for the other stuff they've done that is good or entertaining to society.

Feels similar to working on wildlife conservation or climate change...all of our efforts to combat rich and power forces are on the margin and ultimately amount to very little.

I mean, hell. You can barely get a meh out of so-called Dems like ChrisL and Shoo if the inequality could possibly make Democratic politicians look bad. The rot is deep. The first step seems to be to give a shit and we’ve seemingly lost any hope of that on a national level
 
People don’t care is interesting because in USVI you ride by Epstein island every time you travel between St. Thomas and St. John and according to locals it was pretty well know what was happening on that island long before it was ever made public. Yet, it was a what are we suppose to do to a super wealthy white guy.
 

Let me tell yall how awful the legal system is that protects these people, but let me also cite legal reasons for not blowing the whole thing up.

Pussy.
 
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