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Jeffrey Epstein

AsesinoDeTortugas said:
I was just making a general statement based on the Ford quote, not at you specifically. Sorry if it came off as such.
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It was an astute observation made by Ford, and it had nothing to do with sexual assault. Impeachment is a political process, not a criminal process. And it's an extremely difficult result to achieve. No president in our history has been impeached by the house and convicted by the senate, and we've only had 1 resign in the face of the process. You can barely get 67 senators to agree the sky is blue. And I'm starting to get the feeling Trump is inviting impeachment. I think he'd relish that fight.
 
cville deac said:
It was an astute observation made by Ford, and it had nothing to do with sexual assault. Impeachment is a political process, not a criminal process. And it's an extremely difficult result to achieve. No president in our history has been impeached by the house and convicted by the senate, and we've only had 1 resign in the face of the process. You can barely get 67 senators to agree the sky is blue. And I'm starting to get the feeling Trump is inviting impeachment. I think he'd relish that fight.
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The House could impeach Trump tomorrow if Nancy gave them the green light.
 
DistrictDeacon said:
The House could impeach Trump tomorrow if Nancy gave them the green light.
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No, it couldn't. It would take a lot longer, but the probable result would be an eventual impeachment vote. I say probable because the Dems who won reddish purple districts ran on health care, not impeachment, and they really don't want to be voting on impeachment (which is 1 of the reasons why Nancy has not given it a green light - she still wants to be majority leader in 2021). But can you count to 67? Because I sure can't. I can't even count to 50, maybe not even 47.
 
Who cares? That’s like saying it’s alright for one kid not to clean his room because his brother is a slob.
 
PhDeac said:
Who cares? That’s like saying it’s alright for one kid not to clean his room because his brother is a slob.
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People like Nancy, cville and BSD have a lot invested in the status quo, even if that means letting Trump do his thing unpunished.
 
DistrictDeacon said:
People like Nancy, cville and BSD have a lot invested in the status quo, even if that means letting Trump do his thing unpunished.
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It's called trying to keep the fucking majority in the house. Impeachment is futile with zero chance of conviction. Prosecute Trump criminally after he's out of office.
 
The Dems got a House majority mostly by promising to hold Trump accountable. I don’t know how you think they’re going to keep it by breaking promises.

House Dems need to worry less about appeasing Trump’s base and more about appeasing their own.
 
cville deac said:
It's called trying to keep the fucking majority in the house. Impeachment is futile with zero chance of conviction. Prosecute Trump criminally after he's out of office.
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What exactly are Dems doing these days to convince the non-hardcore voter to show up in 2020? They will have no legislative wins. Every single one of their investigations in being stonewalled with no response. Nancy spends most of her time criticizing the future of the party.

The Republicans won at least two Presidential elections because of their "futile" impeachment.
 
It wasn't an impeachment, but I think the Benghazi hearings are instructive in this situation. No legal repercussions came against Hillary, and she performed pretty well during the testimony, but it successfully reminded the Republican base of one more reason to justify a vote against her, even for the pussy grabber.
 
Democrats should definitely not run on the idea that things will go back to normal when Trump isn’t President. That’s actually the worst strategy. People can just say “Well what’s four years until normalcy?”

Democrats have to offer something different than is worth giving a new President 8 years versus sticking with Trump for four.
 
KitchinDeac said:
And the more they propose to give away, the more moderates will hold their nose and vote Trump or just not vote at all.
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They would have to give a lot away to come close to what the GOP gave away in the tax bill.

The more Trump talks. The more people of color will be driven away and more importantly be driven to vote in higher numbers than in 2016.
 
KitchinDeac said:
And the more they propose to give away, the more moderates will hold their nose and vote Trump or just not vote at all.
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If some “moderates” are dumb enough to believe that’s all Dem candidates are offering and based on this Pub-encouraged lie will gladly vote for Trump, then I’m not sure it’s worth these candidates changing or watering down their message to try and reach these folks.

What you wrote is a “moderate” code for “I know I’m going to vote for Trump but don’t want to admit it”
 
KitchinDeac said:
And the more they propose to give away, the more moderates will hold their nose and vote Trump or just not vote at all.
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I've heard something like this a bunch and it just seems completely absurd to me. This idea that there are a huge number of "moderates" out there that see the abject disaster Trump is, but just think to themselves, welp, everyone getting healthcare is even worse, so guess I have to vote for Trump!

It is at least plausible to me that there were some moderate folks who were duped by all his campaign lies/the whole outsider thing. But there isn't really any excuse anymore. We know who he is. Massive tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations while cutting funding to programs that pay for food, shelter, health care, and education for the poorest, sickest, and most vulnerable Americans. The dehumanization of black and brown people, and a big You Are Not Welcome sign on the door to America, whether it be to refugees or legal immigrants. And that's without touching his own personal failings.

If you are considering "holding your nose and voting for Trump" you aren't a moderate, and you never really were a vote the could be reasonably courted.
 
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tiltdeac said:
I've heard something like this a bunch and it just seems completely absurd to me. This idea that there are a huge number of "moderates" out there that see the abject disaster Trump is, but just think to themselves, welp, everyone getting healthcare is even worse, so guess I have to vote for Trump!

It is at least plausible to me that there were some moderate folks who were duped by all his campaign lies/the whole outsider thing. But there isn't really any excuse anymore. We know who he is. Massive tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations while cutting funding to programs that pay for food, shelter, health care, and education for the poorest, sickest, and most vulnerable Americans. The dehumanization of black and brown people, and a big You Are Not Welcome sign on the door to America, whether it be to refugees or legal immigrants. And that's without touching his own personal failings.

If you are considering "holding your nose and voting for Trump" you aren't a moderate, and you never really were a vote the could be reasonably courted.
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The Chapo guys made the (correct, I think) argument that apart from trade and foreign policy, Trump is roughly governing like Jeb or Marco Rubio would govern. No way would they have created these tariffs or just gotten bored about Venezuela, but the border stuff is just a logical extension of the Obama era policies with a president unwilling to make it better from a PR perspective, and much of the rest is standard issue GOP playbook (tax cuts, anti-environment/science, cut social spending). The biggest difference is just demeanor and refusing to acknowledge norms. And for whatever reason, that pisses off the Dem establishment so much worse than the bad policy and therefore seems to be the thing they go hardest after.

If we're paying attention to things like the National Conservatism conference that just happened in DC, there's a full on acknowledgment from Never Trump conservatives of neoliberalism's failings to keep the base interested, and a renewed focus on racial and social animus. They're correctly learning what Trump has gotten right with his base, which is the cruelty towards people who aren't them. There's lots of ways they can continue that direction without an idiot in charge of the party. They can dress it up in Harvard law/Federalist society nonsense and bring back some of the rich base too.

All of this to say I still don't understand exclusively courting the moderate vote. The kitchen table issues in the Midwest are healthcare and jobs--why not go hard at making healthcare better and wage growth?
 
Exactly what does that poll have to do with a serial sexual predator?
 
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