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Great John Collins Article

RChill bet his boards future on us earning an 8-seed or better in the NCAAT. Using the KenPom ratings as a guide, if a new and expanded NCAAT began today, we would be a 47 seed. Yet instead of having the grace or courage to admit that he might have been a tiny bit over-optimistic about Manning's prospects at Wake, RChill has adopted this sort of undepheated martyrdom.

It is always interesting when a semi-normal poster goes over the edge. 81deac was broken by [Redacted] and the Dino firing. BKF snapped over millennials (I guess). RChill has chosen to die on the Manning hill. There aren't many posters who would or have improved this board by their absence, but RChill has established himself firmly in that group. Pour one out for him on March 17.

When was Rchil a semi-normal poster. I don't remember that.
 
RChill bet his boards future on us earning an 8-seed or better in the NCAAT. Using the KenPom ratings as a guide, if a new and expanded NCAAT began today, we would be a 47 seed. Yet instead of having the grace or courage to admit that he might have been a tiny bit over-optimistic about Manning's prospects at Wake, RChill has adopted this sort of undepheated martyrdom.

It is always interesting when a semi-normal poster goes over the edge. 81deac was broken by [Redacted] and the Dino firing. BKF snapped over millennials (I guess). RChill has chosen to die on the Manning hill. There aren't many posters who would or have improved this board by their absence, but RChill has established himself firmly in that group. Pour one out for him on March 17.

Lol. I said he was a horrible hire from day 1 with his only redeeming attributes being that he wasn’t a dick and he had a higher chance of succeeding than [Redacted]. Almost five years later I feel comfortable with all three of those assessments.
 
Lol. I said he was a horrible hire from day 1 with his only redeeming attributes being that he wasn’t a dick and he had a higher chance of succeeding than [Redacted]. Almost five years later I feel comfortable with all three of those assessments.

that's right

you were right all along

take these pills before you go to sleep
 
Lol. I said he was a horrible hire from day 1 with his only redeeming attributes being that he wasn’t a dick and he had a higher chance of succeeding than [Redacted]. Almost five years later I feel comfortable with all three of those assessments.
Yeah.......

OGB probably has the best search skills on the board. Good luck on this one, bud. Better start deleting.
 
Lol. I said he was a horrible hire from day 1 with his only redeeming attributes being that he wasn’t a dick and he had a higher chance of succeeding than [Redacted]. Almost five years later I feel comfortable with all three of those assessments.

Comparable to Tony Bennett through year 3!
 
that's right

you were right all along

take these pills before you go to sleep

Yeah.......

OGB probably has the best search skills on the board. Good luck on this one, bud. Better start deleting.

Oops

My thoughts the day the news broke.

only logical position is #ManUp #WellmanOut.

Objectively there are things on Manning's resume that indicate a potential for success that just weren't there for [name redacted], regardless of how many people deluded themselves four years ago. On top of that Manning seems like a genuinely good guy. I'll be at the Joel for every game next year hoping he can turn this ship around.

However, this is a horrible hire. One of Mack or Miller was certainly available for the right price. Given the position of our program relative to 4 years ago they would have come at a premium, but I refuse to believe they both said flat out NO to Wake Forest.

Given what he did to the program over the last 4 years, Wellman should have severely overpaid one of those two vs. taking a risk on Manning. No amount of success for Manning will change the fact that Ron Wellman should no longer be employed at Wake Forest.
 
Collins with 15/12 in the first half against DC, but suffered a facial laceration and won't play in the 2nd half
 
So his position is that we who saw Manning wasn't the answer were premature in our assessment. For only he could determine when to make that judgment. Until he just remembered that he was out on Manning even before we were.

You can't make this stuff up.

Poor dude. This explains a lot of his posts. He didn't really have a position to defend; he was all over the place. He just has a psychological need to argue. Hope the boards gave him that relief.

I'm going to speak of him in the past tense now out of respect for the almost dead.
 
Collins with 15/12 in the first half against DC, but suffered a facial laceration and won't play in the 2nd half

50 and 28 in a game and a half. Not bad.
 
So his position is that we who saw Manning wasn't the answer were premature in our assessment. For only he could determine when to make that judgment. Until he just remembered that he was out on Manning even before we were.

You can't make this stuff up.

Poor dude. This explains a lot of his posts. He didn't really have a position to defend; he was all over the place. He just has a psychological need to argue. Hope the boards gave him that relief.

I'm going to speak of him in the past tense now out of respect for the almost dead.

And yet you continue to do so. You’ve never been able to grasp the difference between inconsistency and nuance so I guess I shouldn’t expect anything less.
 
Oops

My thoughts the day the news broke.

Not terrible based on Manning, however...

The only legitimate concern I see is the defense. I think when the talent level has returned to pre-[Redacted] levels Manning is going to run into the same problem Skip did: teasing out just enough defense to get us over the top. Skip never could, and when Dino finally did he didn’t have the leadership chops to keep it all together. My fear with Manning is that he will be an unhappy medium between the two, but I’ll reserve judgment until I see him coach Skip and Dino like talent.

Manning was only a terrible hire in that we hired him from a self-inflicted terrible position. He’s actually worked out better than I expected. I guess people see what they want to see (including myself).

For some, the past 5 games are the confirmation of the dire predictions they were making last year that didn’t come true; for others, it is on the low end of the predictable result of losing your front court to the pros.

Do I have concerns about Manning as the long term solution? Of course. Has he done enough to earn the chance to coach a team with pre-[Redacted] talent? Of course. Will he have that team in the near future? It sure looks like it.

My position on Manning has always been “looks promising, not sure about his upper limit as a coach but also not worried about that at this point.”

Last year didn’t prove Manning was the long term answer for this program (which for me is someone that puts out a championship contender every 3 years or so and rarely, if ever, misses the tournament once the program is up and running) and I’ve never said he is.

Last year did prove, contrary to a whole bunch of naysayers, that Manning had the program on track (I.e. was following the trajectory you would expect from the long term answer). The last 5 games are a significant deviation from that path but not so far that it can’t be made up by the end of the season.

UOTE=RChildress107;2714629]It's almost like he's a good coach or something.[/QUOTE]

No, he's not.
 
My expectations for Manning from the beginning were:

Years 1 and 2: Stabilize the program, rebuild recruiting relationships, get your staff and system in place, show some glimmers of hope.

Years 3 and 4: Return to competitiveness, move safely back into the top 100, win some big recruiting battles, improve the talent all the way to the end of the bench, make an NCAA tourney, return to relevance.

Year 5 onward: begin a stretch similar to the mid-90s and early 2000s, make the tourney every year, get a couple top 4 seeds, contend for at least one ACC and national championships.

Unless we finish the season very strong (getting to 15 wins and mid to low 70s in Kenpom) he will have come up a little short of the Year 3-4 expectations. I think the likely explanation for that was whiffing on the 2016 class compounded by early departures that were unexpected at the time the 2016 class was being recruited. Manning deserves a good deal of blame for that.

My largest concerns going forward, in order, are whether he can keep up the recruiting momentum through the 19 and 20 classes, whether he can produce top end teams on the level of 05, 95-97, and whether his postseason results will look more mid 90s or more early 2000s.

As I’ve said repeatedly, I think our talent alone can carry us to a top 8 seed next year and I will be very concerned if it doesn’t.

Wrong

Judging by Kenpom this season would be in the high end of Dino's regime.

I think we remain a top 40 team with or without Collins next year. Top 20 if Collins stays.

Wrong

In the last 3 games over half of the 45 points scored against us in the last 5 minutes were by the opposing team's starting SF.

But Brown's definitely not going to help this team. We suck and Collins should get out now before he's ruined by Manning and the stink of losing.

Right.

In years 3-4 combined, Bennett went 45-22 (20-18 including conference tourney) with 6 ACC road wins, one NCAA appearance and an average Kenpom rating of 37.

I bet that Manning meets at least 3 of those 5 benchmarks.

Wrong

Agreed. That explanation is gone next year, and isn't really needed this year.

As of right now, this team is on track to win 16 games and finish top 50. No excuse needed unless he falls off that pace. Next years team should be significantly better.

Wrong
 
lol

this is not gonna go well for you, big guy

quit while you're behind
 
Collins put up 15 and 11 in 17 minutes before going out with an injury.
 
Not terrible based on Manning, however...





UOTE=RChildress107;2714629]It's almost like he's a good coach or something.

No, he's not.[/QUOTE]

Would love to know what the last quote is in response to, the first two I’m assuming are from the beginning of year 4. I’ve admitted on several threads that those takes were way too optimistic and I’ll do so again here. I stand by the general principle though: with enough high end talent Manning could produce somewhere in the Skip/Dino range.
 
Wrong



Wrong



Right.



Wrong



Wrong

I stand by post 1, was probably wrong about post 2 and have admitted as much (Dino would have helped immensely but probably not 50 spots in the rankings), stand by post 3, post 4 was wrong though I think it was made without the foresight of JC and Dino leaving. Same with post 5.
 
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