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Lady Deacs

Another blowout loss for the ladies today. Putrid basketball by everything Wake related. Maybe the intramural teams are good?
 
No way to win without Penna and Sharp. Seems like the injury bug bites the hell out of us every year.
 
Another loss to a winless in the acc team Duke. Men and women combined 1 - 11 in acc play. Tick tock for both Hoover and Manning.
 
Another loss to a winless in the acc team Duke. Men and women combined 1 - 11 in acc play. Tick tock for both Hoover and Manning.

Clawson could do a better job than both in his spare time. Wellman has failed our bball programs miserably.
 
Another loss to a winless in the acc team Duke. Men and women combined 1 - 11 in acc play. Tick tock for both Hoover and Manning.

Who ever hired those two should be on the hot seat too.
 
With the women it's hard to really say Hoover is the problem I think. I mean we've never been good in women's hoops despite the coach, so that seems to point to more of an administrative problem than just a coaching problems. Nobody we've ever hired has had much success with the women. That's different then the men where we know we can be pretty good and have been under multiple coaches. I'm not saying Hoover is a great coach or anything and like Manning she needed more head coaching experience before we ever considered her, but it would seem our lack of ability to compete in women's hoops goes far beyond whoever the head coach is.
 
With the women it's hard to really say Hoover is the problem I think. I mean we've never been good in women's hoops despite the coach, so that seems to point to more of an administrative problem than just a coaching problems. Nobody we've ever hired has had much success with the women. That's different then the men where we know we can be pretty good and have been under multiple coaches. I'm not saying Hoover is a great coach or anything and like Manning she needed more head coaching experience before we ever considered her, but it would seem our lack of ability to compete in women's hoops goes far beyond whoever the head coach is.

The continued failure of this program to be competitive since inception (whenever that was) is a huge mystery. I don’t understand the sport, but you have to believe it falls to the lack of quality recruiting ( I acknowledge the 2009 exception). For some reason, we have never been considered a quality destination for top recruits. I wish someone who follows the program closely would enlighten the board.
 
Would guess its a combination of factors:

- WF has a bad women's basketball rep, which becomes self-fulfilling as the rep probably hurts in recruiting.
- Realize that outside of a few schools, women's basketball doesn't draw well, but attendance is particularly abysmal for WF basketball games. Duke has a completely apathetic fan-base for every sport, but for men's hoop, but even last night, there were far more people in the stands at Cameron than you see at WF women's games. When picking between schools to play hoop, it helps to have at least some following (see WF men's soccer).
- (Realize this may trigger the Bat Signal for DR) Not having an on campus arena for women's hoop really hurts that sport. While WF women's basketball would never draw a huge throng of students, a few more would go if they could just walk across campus to a game or part of a game. Students aren't going to take the time and effort to head to the Coliseum complex for a women's hoop game. Would think that there would be a way for WF to host both volleyball and basketball games at Reynolds.
- Coaching has sucked. Yes, a series of coaches have failed (which shows the problem is more than just coaching), but none of them have been particularly successful after WF. Have no doubt that an excellent coach would make this team more competitive.
- Bad luck. Realize every team has had injuries, and don't follow WF women's hoop close enough to list them, but it seems like WF has suffered an inordinate number of injuries over the years, particularly at the PG position. Have recollection of more than one WF team that looked to be headed in the right direction only to find that they can suit up only 6 or 7 scholarship players.
- Allocation of resources. Would guess that the budget for WF women's hoop is probably the smallest in the ACC (if not, in the bottom 3). While WF would like to have a good women's hoop team, I don't think its a major priority for the athletic department as a whole; so, we spend less on coach's salaries, recruiting budget and facilities than most other women's programs.
 
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The women have lost the following players that should be on the team:
Simmons - medical DQ before this season
Walker - medical DQ before this season
Stevenson - shoulder injury, will redshirt this season
Whitehead -dismissed from team
Sharpe - out for a month with broken hand
Penna - missed last two games with injury and is out indefinitely
 
Would guess its a combination of factors:

- WF has a bad women's basketball rep, which becomes self-fulfilling as the rep probably hurts in recruiting.
- Realize that outside of a few schools, women's basketball doesn't draw well, but attendance is particularly abysmal for WF basketball games. Duke has a completely apathetic fan-base for every sport, but for men's hoop, but even last night, there were far more people in the stands at Cameron than you see at WF women's games. When picking between schools to play hoop, it helps to have at least some following (see WF men's soccer).
- (Realize this may trigger the Bat Signal for DR) Not having an on campus arena for women's hoop really hurts that sport. While WF women's basketball would never draw a huge throng of students, a few more would go if they could just walk across campus to a game or part of a game. Students aren't going to take the time and effort to head to the Coliseum complex for a women's hoop game. Would think that there would be a way for WF to host both volleyball and basketball games at Reynolds.
- Coaching has sucked. Yes, a series of coaches have failed (which shows the problem is more than just coaching), but none of them have been particularly successful after WF. Have no doubt that an excellent coach would make this team more competitive.
- Bad luck. Realize every team has had injuries, and don't follow WF women's hoop close enough to list them, but it seems like WF has suffered an inordinate number of injuries over the years, particularly at the PG position. Have recollection of more than one WF team that looked to be headed in the right direction only to find that they can suit up only 6 or 7 scholarship players.
- Allocation of resources. Would guess that the budget for WF women's hoop is probably the smallest in the ACC (if not, in the bottom 3). While WF would like to have a good women's hoop team, I don't think its a major priority for the athletic department as a whole; so, we spend less on coach's salaries, recruiting budget and facilities than most other women's programs.

It's this. It's all about the coach in college sports. You can put Matt Daugherty in charge of UNC and he can tank the entire program in a few years. In 2 years Roy Williams took that same program to a national championship. There are so many examples of this, across all college sports. It's all about the coach.
 
Wasn't there a parent of a High Point player that Hoover had coached that said she wasn't a good coach on the old board?
 
Wasn't there a parent of a High Point player that Hoover had coached that said she wasn't a good coach on the old board?

It really is poor that Ron Wellman would hire Danny Manning after only 2 years of head coaching experience and Hoover after only one year of head coaching. I know we're not Duke or UNC, but Wake Forest shouldn't be job you get after only a year or 2 of being a head coach, especially if those 2 or fewer years were at mid-majors or lower. Comparing football to basketball may not be apples to oranges, but Clawson was a head coach at Fordham, Richmond and Bowling Green, plus a year in there as OC at Tennessee before we got him.
 
It really is poor that Ron Wellman would hire Danny Manning after only 2 years of head coaching experience and Hoover after only one year of head coaching. I know we're not Duke or UNC, but Wake Forest shouldn't be job you get after only a year or 2 of being a head coach, especially if those 2 or fewer years were at mid-majors or lower. Comparing football to basketball may not be apples to oranges, but Clawson was a head coach at Fordham, Richmond and Bowling Green, plus a year in there as OC at Tennessee before we got him.

So, that means that no college assistant should be considered?

There are several current college coaches that have excelled with minimal or even no head coaching experience: Chris Beard at Texas Tech (one year at Ark-Little Rock) Wojo at Marquette, Mike Hopkins at Washington, Chris Mack at Xavier, Roy at Kansas, Matt Painter at Purdue (he has one year at Southern Illinois before getting the Purdue job), Greg Gard at Wisconsin, Steve Prohm at Iowa State (had coached 4 years at Murray St.).

Any criterion that immediately limits the pool is a bad thing. Great coaches can come from any background. They can be assistants (Wojo, Hopkins, Mack), they may have never head coached in a non-Power 6 conference (Stevens, K, Keatts, Beard). If there was an objective measure to find the best coach, everyone would use it, but there isn't. Just hope that the person(s) making the decision consider all of the possible factors, perform the necessary due diligence and make a great hire.

Some doubted Clawson because he had a rocky year at TN, but he proved to be the right guy for the job. I just want WF to make the right hire and limiting the pool, limits the chances of that.
 
So, that means that no college assistant should be considered?

There are several current college coaches that have excelled with minimal or even no head coaching experience: Chris Beard at Texas Tech (one year at Ark-Little Rock) Wojo at Marquette, Mike Hopkins at Washington, Chris Mack at Xavier, Roy at Kansas, Matt Painter at Purdue (he has one year at Southern Illinois before getting the Purdue job), Greg Gard at Wisconsin, Steve Prohm at Iowa State (had coached 4 years at Murray St.).

Any criterion that immediately limits the pool is a bad thing. Great coaches can come from any background. They can be assistants (Wojo, Hopkins, Mack), they may have never head coached in a non-Power 6 conference (Stevens, K, Keatts, Beard). If there was an objective measure to find the best coach, everyone would use it, but there isn't. Just hope that the person(s) making the decision consider all of the possible factors, perform the necessary due diligence and make a great hire.

Some doubted Clawson because he had a rocky year at TN, but he proved to be the right guy for the job. I just want WF to make the right hire and limiting the pool, limits the chances of that.

I know it really depends on the individual, a guy that's only been an assistant at Queens College might come to Wake and do great things, but I think typically I'd like to see somebody have more of a track record as a head coach than Manning and Hoover. However, I agree there shouldn't limits, but Wellman has certainly shown he doesn't have the ability to make that good under the radar type hire for basketball anyway. Put it this way, if Wellman is the guy making the next hire, I hope it's somebody with more than 1 or 2 successful years as a head coach.
 
The women have lost the following players that should be on the team:
Simmons - medical DQ before this season
Walker - medical DQ before this season
Stevenson - shoulder injury, will redshirt this season
Whitehead -dismissed from team
Sharpe - out for a month with broken hand
Penna - missed last two games with injury and is out indefinitely


And this sort of injury report has been pretty consistent for Wake women's basketball the last few years. All the scholarships available may be filled, but if a significant fraction of the players are physically unable to play, Wake isn't winning many games. If a coach simply doesn't have the players, it is difficult to win. Wake doesn't have enough healthy scholarship players to have a solid practice.
 
Beat uva on the road by 10. Not sure what to think of Hoover. I mean it does seem that we have three or four key players injured every single year. At some point do you just say that that doesn't matter regardless and that any momentum we have is pretty much dead and that we need a fresh start to try to generate some excitement again to finally get over the hump.
 
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Beat uva on the road by 10. Not sure what to think of Hoover. I mean it does seem that we have three or four key players injured every single year. At some point do you just say that that doesn't matter regardless and that any momentum we have is pretty much dead and that we need a fresh start to try to generate some excitement again to finally get over the hump.

Agreed. This year it's our all-ACC senior (Penna) and our best guard (Sharp), but injury rates are high across women's basketball and each team has 15 scholarships, so teams need to be able to absorb some attrition. Hoover hasn't been able to do that and has been given many opportunities.
 
Beat uva on the road by 10. Not sure what to think of Hoover. I mean it does seem that we have three or four key players injured every single year. At some point do you just say that that doesn't matter regardless and that any momentum we have is pretty much dead and that we need a fresh start to try to generate some excitement again to finally get over the hump.

Happy to see the girls get a win. Impressive to do it without our two leading scorers. Raca is turning into a pretty solid player.
 
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