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Trump Campaign colluded with Russia

It’s not a question of whether the campaign colluded with Russia. We’ve known they did and this is just more confirmation. We need to know who, outside of Gates and Manafort, was aware.
 
Maybe a dumb question, but why did Russia need polling data directly from trumps campaign?
 
It’s not a question of whether the campaign colluded with Russia. We’ve known they did and this is just more confirmation. We need to know who, outside of Gates and Manafort, was aware.

I guess that’s important but even if Trump didn’t know, his election victory was a sham. His whole administration is illegitimate.
 
I guess that’s important but even if Trump didn’t know, his election victory was a sham. His whole administration is illegitimate.

Yeah I’m not disagreeing. It’s a stain on his presidency and should be the first thing notes about it when the history books are written. I don’t think he’s in legal jeopardy for collusion but he’s in the crosshairs now.
 
Maybe a dumb question, but why did Russia need polling data directly from trumps campaign?
I imagine that with that information Trump's campaign could direct Russia's efforts where they thought it was most needed.
 
I imagine that with that information Trump's campaign could direct Russia's efforts where they thought it was most needed.

Obviously needed to coordinate to create this

 
 
I imagine that with that information Trump's campaign could direct Russia's efforts where they thought it was most needed.

This. And if you watched that 2 part Frontline piece on Facebook (eff Mark Zuckerberg), Russia was targeting certain states and demographics. For example, they'd promote Jill Stein in more liberal circles or put fake stories about how Hillary didn't care about minorities where it was likely to get read by minorities in order to try to suppress that vote. The Russian bots who wrote these stories on their troll farms weren't just promoting Trump. They were also promoting Bernie in the primary and Stein in the general.

That said, birdman, I don't know that we can necessarily conclude that the election results were in fact a sham. I think it's difficult, if not impossible, to tell how much of Trump's victory was due to Comey, insurance hikes in certain states (like VA and AZ) and/or meddling Russian trolls. They all had an effect - it's just difficult to attempt to apportion the correct amount to which state. For instance, take AZ, which Trump won by 5%, and VA, which Clinton won by 5%. The polls were predicting AZ to be closer and VA to be more of a blowout. In both states, we had significant ACA rate hikes announced 1 week before the election, so I thought that may well have been a factor as to why the polls were off a bit in those 2 states. Another state that had me gong WTF was MN, which is normally reliably Dem, and Clinton only won that by 1%. Obama had won MN by 8 and 10% in his 2 races. Maybe the Trump campaign had some polling which showed the upper midwest states (MN, WI and MI) were more gettable than the Clinton team thought (after all, she didn't go there), and perhaps the Russian trolls concentrated much of their efforts on those states. Maybe Comey had more of a disproportional effect in the upper midwest. I don't know. But unless we get a much more detailed view of the level of collusion and exactly what information was shared, I think it's difficult to apportion blame to any states with any accuracy. And of course Clinton and her lousy tin eared campaign team share a ton of the blame as well. And my blood pressure goes through the roof every time she sends out test balloons about running in 2020 or is in the press complaining about 2016. She needs to effin go away and not be seen or heard from again.
 
This. And if you watched that 2 part Frontline piece on Facebook (eff Mark Zuckerberg), Russia was targeting certain states and demographics. For example, they'd promote Jill Stein in more liberal circles or put fake stories about how Hillary didn't care about minorities where it was likely to get read by minorities in order to try to suppress that vote. The Russian bots who wrote these stories on their troll farms weren't just promoting Trump. They were also promoting Bernie in the primary and Stein in the general.

That said, birdman, I don't know that we can necessarily conclude that the election results were in fact a sham. I think it's difficult, if not impossible, to tell how much of Trump's victory was due to Comey, insurance hikes in certain states (like VA and AZ) and/or meddling Russian trolls. They all had an effect - it's just difficult to attempt to apportion the correct amount to which state. For instance, take AZ, which Trump won by 5%, and VA, which Clinton won by 5%. The polls were predicting AZ to be closer and VA to be more of a blowout. In both states, we had significant ACA rate hikes announced 1 week before the election, so I thought that may well have been a factor as to why the polls were off a bit in those 2 states. Another state that had me gong WTF was MN, which is normally reliably Dem, and Clinton only won that by 1%. Obama had won MN by 8 and 10% in his 2 races. Maybe the Trump campaign had some polling which showed the upper midwest states (MN, WI and MI) were more gettable than the Clinton team thought (after all, she didn't go there), and perhaps the Russian trolls concentrated much of their efforts on those states. Maybe Comey had more of a disproportional effect in the upper midwest. I don't know. But unless we get a much more detailed view of the level of collusion and exactly what information was shared, I think it's difficult to apportion blame to any states with any accuracy. And of course Clinton and her lousy tin eared campaign team share a ton of the blame as well. And my blood pressure goes through the roof every time she sends out test balloons about running in 2020 or is in the press complaining about 2016. She needs to effin go away and not be seen or heard from again.

It really doesn’t matter to me what the impact was, the mother fuckers cheated to win whether or not they needed too. Louisville might have beaten us in 2016 regardless of Wakey leaks but they still cheated so fuck them. Trumps team committed campaign finance violations and almost certainly coordinated with a foreign adversary during the 2016 campaign. The 2016 election victory should be vacated.
 
It really doesn’t matter to me what the impact was, the mother fuckers cheated to win whether or not they needed too. Louisville might have beaten us in 2016 regardless of Wakey leaks but they still cheated so fuck them. Trumps team committed campaign finance violations and almost certainly coordinated with a foreign adversary during the 2016 campaign. The 2016 election victory should be vacated.

yeah and above all else that motherfucker has gotten 2 justices on the court, and maybe another (don't die, RBG!). those should not count.
 
yeah and above all else that motherfucker has gotten 2 justices on the court, and maybe another (don't die, RBG!). those should not count.

Two young justices that will be on the bench for 25 years or more, one of which should not have been his to appoint even if he hadn’t cheated and won the election.

People should be more angry about this.
 
Angry?

Meh, those nice white people in Russia jus’ tryin’ ta he’p save us from are black/brown an’ librul people problems.


No collusion
No collusion
No collusion...










Oh




Ok





Collusion ain’t no crime.
 
Maybe a dumb question, but why did Russia need polling data directly from trumps campaign?

If they started spending money or put people on the project to get the info, it would have left some tracks. This way, it would be much harder to prove.
 
It really doesn’t matter to me what the impact was, the mother fuckers cheated to win whether or not they needed too. Louisville might have beaten us in 2016 regardless of Wakey leaks but they still cheated so fuck them. Trumps team committed campaign finance violations and almost certainly coordinated with a foreign adversary during the 2016 campaign. The 2016 election victory should be vacated.

What is the process for vacating an election? We don't reside in a parliamentary system. The constitution provides for impeachment and 25th amendmenting a president as the 2 ways of removing him. If we somehow successfully achieve either of those 2 things (which I seriously doubt), we end up with Pence. Pence would normalize our relations with our traditional allies and repeal Trump's tariffs, but his judicial appointments would be the same. Not sure if the 4 year terms are constitutional or if they're established by some other law enacted by congress. But I don't know of any legal means of vacating an election.

And it's not like our elections have been free of shenanigans in the past. I'd assert that the majority in Bush v. Gore erroneously took from the FL supreme court the final authority of FL law. Back in 1960, there is a good chance Momo rigged the Cook County vote totals (similarly to what happened in that 1 NC district this year), and that put Kennedy over the top. (Why Kennedy then appointed his brother as AG and went after the mob is a mystery, and it wasn't good for his health, but that's another matter.) Going further back, there was the 1876 deal handing the election to Hayes and the 1824 alleged corrupt bargain where Clay gave his votes to Adams so that the vile Jackson wouldn't win. And before that, Burr tried to steal the 1800 election from his running mate, which brought about the necessity for the 12th amendment.

Don't get me wrong. I alternate between angry, sad and numb. But the only thing we can do about it is impeach Trump, 25th amendment him or vote him out of office (and prosecute all those members of his team who committed crimes).
 
Two young justices that will be on the bench for 25 years or more, one of which should not have been his to appoint even if he hadn’t cheated and won the election.

People should be more angry about this.

You'd think Republicans would be more angry that he was colluding with Russia to beat them in the primary.
 
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