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Thread: Ed Hardin article

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by bcobbdeacs View Post
    At least I have a seat at the table, non donors are just spitting in the wind.
    You seem proud of this. Most people complicit in the destruction of something wonderful have the good taste not to crow about it.

    Pretty sad that you don't see the damage you and yours have brought down upon something better men built.

  2. #82
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    bcobb's 'let them eat cake' moment

  3. #83
    This exchange with bcobb does pretty clearly illustrate the Wake AD. I mean have you ever seen an AD that's as all-around out of touch with it's fanbase as Wake's. It's why empty seats aren't really a problem and so many of the campaigns and game experiences are so lame.

  4. #84
    Robert O'Kelley
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    Quote Originally Posted by saltydeac View Post
    Toooooo funny! Who cares!???! Clearly the seat hasn't bought you or anyone else anything worth a hill of beans. Or else you and your ilk are just as inept/weak/blind as Ronnie watching program hit the lowest point in history.

    Now a seat at the table of say a SEC FB school, Clemson, UK/KU bball, etc. might be worth chirpin about, because those folk's voices are heard and they don't play with losers. But Ronnie just grins and bears it with our table full of jokers and kicks them out the door to do his own thing as rest of country laughs at the Deacs.
    Makes no sense. then why post here?

    I don't understand why people are reacting the way they are. You give money, you have influence. It is as simple as that. If you don't give money, you can post articulate consistent arguments on here and possibly catch the reading eye of those that give money and ... you guessed, have some influence in helping them formulate their opinions/strategy. That is how critical mass happens.

    That is how everything works everywhere.

    So, your takeaway can very easily be I don't/can't give money to Wake, but I can still have influence as my ideas/knowledge/respect on the Wake board goes persuade those that do give money.
    le bone

  5. #85
    I'm not shocked and don't have an issue that donors have influence. It's unfortunate that terrible basketball, empty stands (for a decade) and hapless coaching hires (twice) doesn't speak for itself...and that our donors don't expect more.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by jaybone View Post
    Makes no sense. then why post here?

    I don't understand why people are reacting the way they are. You give money, you have influence. It is as simple as that. If you don't give money, you can post articulate consistent arguments on here and possibly catch the reading eye of those that give money and ... you guessed, have some influence in helping them formulate their opinions/strategy. That is how critical mass happens.

    That is how everything works everywhere.

    So, your takeaway can very easily be I don't/can't give money to Wake, but I can still have influence as my ideas/knowledge/respect on the Wake board goes persuade those that do give money.
    So you don't think huge losses in revenue and empty coliseums influence the direction of a program.

    Maybe not, but if that's the case, it's the reason wake is DFL.

  7. #87
    Robert O'Kelley
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    Sure. But you would hope AD employees do that math and go to Wellman strongly recommending action. Whether that is happening or not, still helpful to have donors swing through and say, my $100,000 ain't coming in for 2019 unless something happens by April 1, 2019 or whatever their line in the sand is.

    To make things more difficult (for us), most donors are closer to Wellman's age than they are to 30.

    Our donors are less likely to try and ride Wellman to retire than replace Manning. I strongly believe that to hit a home run, both have to go or at the very least, Wellman needs to appoint his heir. For whatever reason - I don't pretend to understand Wellman - who has a strong track record save basketball. He likely wants to restore the program before he departs and doesn't see that he is a problem in that happening - that most solid young coaches will wait for a better job with an AD that is going to be likely still be in his job in 2023.
    le bone

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaybone View Post
    Sure. But you would hope AD employees do that math and go to Wellman strongly recommending action. Whether that is happening or not, still helpful to have donors swing through and say, my $100,000 ain't coming in for 2019 unless something happens by April 1, 2019 or whatever their line in the sand is.

    To make things more difficult (for us), most donors are closer to Wellman's age than they are to 30.

    Our donors are less likely to try and ride Wellman to retire than replace Manning. I strongly believe that to hit a home run, both have to go or at the very least, Wellman needs to appoint his heir. For whatever reason - I don't pretend to understand Wellman - who has a strong track record save basketball. He likely wants to restore the program before he departs and doesn't see that he is a problem in that happening - that most solid young coaches will wait for a better job with an AD that is going to be likely still be in his job in 2023.
    sounds like the donors who [think they] matter wouldn't dream of actually losing their seat at the table to send a message

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheCaptain View Post
    sounds like the donors who [think they] matter wouldn't dream of actually losing their seat at the table to send a message
    And that is why we have 9 straight years of dumpster fire.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheCaptain View Post
    sounds like the donors who [think they] matter wouldn't dream of actually losing their seat at the table to send a message
    it's all about the show. if wake starts winning, those that are now the big fish in the little pond may lose their rank. they might even have their seats moved to the upper deck!! aghast!!!

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by bcobbdeacs View Post
    At least I have a seat at the table, non donors are just spitting in the wind.
    This is one of the most absurd things Iíve ever read on these boards. As knowell and others have pointed out, youíre boasting about ostensibly having influence, yet the product youíre ostensibly influencing is abysmal.

    Thus, either:
    A) Youíre generally content with the state of things, and are utilizing your influence to compliment the captain of this creaky ship while he keeps sailing it toward an iceberg; or

    B) Youíre not content with the state of things, but clearly arenít being heard, and thus after giving all that money, your influence isnít what you thought it was.

    So about which of these two terrible alternatives are you bragging?

  12. #92
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    the lack of self awareness of that post gets richer and more full-bodied with each reading

  13. #93
    Robert O'Kelley
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    I don't understand the logically-flawed argument of "I still financially support and fund this awful Wellman endeavor but at the same time I'm also not part of the problem."

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosDeac View Post
    I don't understand the logically-flawed argument of "I still financially support and fund this awful Wellman endeavor but at the same time I'm also not part of the problem."
    It's all about eating your cheese, drinking your wine and getting your pat on the head from King Wellman the 1st.

  15. #95
    Robert O'Kelley
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    Quote Originally Posted by knowell View Post
    And that is why we have 9 straight years of dumpster fire.
    Disagree. You can't cut bait after a year or two in college hoops the way you [apparently] can in the NFL and NBA. For a bunch of different reasons, including buyouts as well as the commitment you start to make to players and staff. It also makes it more difficult to hire next time. You get one shot every 4 years IMO and if you fuck it up, you essentially have to live with it unless they go Petrino or Bruce Pearl on you and you can fire them for cause.

    It could easily be argued that our fall from the basketball upper level started by firing Dino a year too EARLY. In the coaching world, especially considering his ties to Prosser, that was seen as pretty cold, I believe. Yes, we weren't playing very good ball there at the end with what was it? three or four 10-year NBA players, but we were pulling in 20-win seasons. If the reason for Dino being fired was due to some off the court shenanigans or disagreement over types of recruits, Wellman would have been better served if he had been more transparent. The reason is - bottom line - we did NOT get our first or second and possibly third offer to replace Dino (hello Bzd), and then four years later, for different reasons but with the same lack of transparency, we did not get our first or second offer again (hello Manning).

    I am somewhat sympathetic to Wellman. He made a great basketball hire in Prosser who could have been at Wake until about now, frankly and Wellman would have been perceived as historically one of the best ADs at a non-monolithic university of his era. But Prosser tragically died and a really awful time and Dino begat Bzd begat Manning. Don't get me wrong, Wellman has made mistakes tied to transparency and ego for the last 10+ years as it relates to hoops, but ...

    I do think that if Wellman truly loved the university and was absolutely committed to getting a slam dunk hire, he'd retire today or announce his retirement and find his replacement immediately. I do not have any faith he can hire his first choice basketball coach at the end of this year
    le bone

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by jaybone View Post
    Disagree. You can't cut bait after a year or two in college hoops the way you [apparently] can in the NFL and NBA. For a bunch of different reasons, including buyouts as well as the commitment you start to make to players and staff. It also makes it more difficult to hire next time. You get one shot every 4 years IMO and if you fuck it up, you essentially have to live with it unless they go Petrino or Bruce Pearl on you and you can fire them for cause.

    It could easily be argued that our fall from the basketball upper level started by firing Dino a year too EARLY. In the coaching world, especially considering his ties to Prosser, that was seen as pretty cold, I believe. Yes, we weren't playing very good ball there at the end with what was it? three or four 10-year NBA players, but we were pulling in 20-win seasons. If the reason for Dino being fired was due to some off the court shenanigans or disagreement over types of recruits, Wellman would have been better served if he had been more transparent. The reason is - bottom line - we did NOT get our first or second and possibly third offer to replace Dino (hello Bzd), and then four years later, for different reasons but with the same lack of transparency, we did not get our first or second offer again (hello Manning).

    I am somewhat sympathetic to Wellman. He made a great basketball hire in Prosser who could have been at Wake until about now, frankly and Wellman would have been perceived as historically one of the best ADs at a non-monolithic university of his era. But Prosser tragically died and a really awful time and Dino begat Bzd begat Manning. Don't get me wrong, Wellman has made mistakes tied to transparency and ego for the last 10+ years as it relates to hoops, but ...

    I do think that if Wellman truly loved the university and was absolutely committed to getting a slam dunk hire, he'd retire today or announce his retirement and find his replacement immediately. I do not have any faith he can hire his first choice basketball coach at the end of this year
    We should let VA Tech know they are doing it wrong. You have to give a proven failure 4 years or you can't get a good coach.

    Jaybone self parody?

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by bcobbdeacs View Post
    At least I have a seat at the table, non donors are just spitting in the wind.

  18. #98
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    i don't understand the "it makes it harder to hire someone if you fire someone doing an objectively terrible job"

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheCaptain View Post
    i don't understand the "it makes it harder to hire someone if you fire someone doing an objectively terrible job"
    It limits your candidate pool to people who don't think they will do a terrible job.

  20. #100
    Robert O'Kelley
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    Virginia Tech example is fair enough, but other examples are far and few between. It certainly helps if you have years of stability in either that revenue generating sport or on the football side, which VTech had. I honestly found the Buzz Williams hire shady in that I am pretty sure they had an agreement with Buzz before they actually fired James Johnson. Certainly easy to argue it worked and there are no virgins in college athletics, but it was a no brainer to fire Johnson if you know you have Buzz Williams ready to come in essentially the next day and take the job.

    I said before the season and will say again, Manning's main problems are twofold:

    * His personality is wildly boring; I'd be bummed with him as my accountant as that 1-hour a year in his office is gonna suck
    * He has never had any sort of program philosophy - nevermind if he can coach or not - he didn't have a 2-year plan, a 5-year plan, a 10-year plan. He didn't set a strategy to recruit a certain type of player for the first few years and ratchet it up a notch in Year X. He essentially sought the best players he could find early or late/ close to home or far away / foreign or dometic, and went at them until he was told it was pointless. Thus, we didn't recruit a certain type of kid or collection of kids, some 4-year players some less. Our locker room hasn't even been cohesive. Compare his throw shit at the wall and see if it sticks strategy with Clawson's. Clawson's only stumble was losing his awesome DC a year earlier than anticipated and not promoting from within right away and losing Clark Lea when we probably could have kept him.

    Clawson went 3-9 both of his first two years, the football equivalent of James Johnson's VTech 2-year run.

    But anyway, I stand by my belief that you can't go half cocked on hiring and firing after a year or two and expect to get your #1 choice. Coaches don't get fast second chances in college coaching the way they seem to do in the NFL and NBA. Unless Nick Saban wants you ...
    Last edited by jaybone; 01-11-2019 at 05:24 PM.
    le bone

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