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Thread: Police and Prison Abolition Thread

  1. #201
    Rusty Larue

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junebug View Post
    Iím not. I think youíre wrong.
    ďCages for humans are humane!Ē is more the Junebug I know.

  2. #202
    I disagree with you
    ImTheCaptain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHBDemon View Post
    We (the royal we) are fighting for liberation. That includes people inside, call them people not convicts, and activists on the outside. Millions of people live in that unjust system. It is not incumbent on incarcerated people, or the activists who share a common goal, to finalize concrete plans for what is next, BEFORE demanding liberation.
    who said concrete? we don't even have a paper mache plan.
    Last edited by ImTheCaptain; 01-17-2019 at 12:50 PM.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by MHBDemon View Post
    We (the royal we) are fighting for liberation. That includes people inside, call them people not convicts, and activists on the outside. Millions of people live in that unjust system. It is not incumbent on incarcerated people, or the activists who share a common goal, to finalize concrete plans for what is next, BEFORE demanding liberation.
    If you're serious about what you're asking for - it really is. Maybe not finalizing, but proposing something concrete in the alternative is necessary in my view. You're saying the reforms proposed by like-minded people don't go far enough. You want to do away with the system altogether. But you have no framework for what comes next. What does anybody do with that? Nothing.

  4. #204
    Rusty Larue

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheCaptain View Post
    we're not asking convicts to solve problems. we're asking college educated instigators to solve the problem they are saying exists on this message board thread they created
    So all your asking is for us to solve the problem of mass incarceration? Our solution is to abolish prisons. Iím not sure what you donít understand about that.

    If you think that creates some other problem, then say so and propose a solution.

  5. #205
    Rusty Larue

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamison2Carter View Post
    If you're serious about what you're asking for - it really is. Maybe not finalizing, but proposing something concrete in the alternative is necessary in my view. You're saying the reforms proposed by like-minded people don't go far enough. You want to do away with the system altogether. But you have no framework for what comes next. What does anybody do with that? Nothing.

  6. #206
    Older than Dirt WFU71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHBDemon View Post
    We (the royal we) are fighting for liberation. That includes people inside, call them people not convicts, and activists on the outside. Millions of people live in that unjust system. It is not incumbent on incarcerated people, or the activists who share a common goal, to finalize concrete plans for what is next, BEFORE demanding liberation.
    That's bullshit for "I have no fucking clue" or "You're really going to hate the plan".

  7. #207
    Also, since the definition of a ďviolentĒ crime has come up, SCOTUS just had a decision broadening the definition to a degree that should shock all of you


  8. #208
    Rusty Larue

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamison2Carter View Post
    If you're serious about what you're asking for - it really is. Maybe not finalizing, but proposing something concrete in the alternative is necessary in my view. You're saying the reforms proposed by like-minded people don't go far enough. You want to do away with the system altogether. But you have no framework for what comes next. What does anybody do with that? Nothing.
    What comes next is the prisoners all go free, governments tear down or repurpose the prisons, and no one else is ever sentenced to prison when convicted of a crime.

  9. #209
    ADT I agree with pretty much all your reforms because you are talking as a reformist not a destroyer idealist. The inability to get employment is certainly a massive reason for the repeat offender system we have now. If you committed a crime that directly deals with the employment type you seek then itís understandable that this should be reported, I.e financial crimes and banking, child crimes and children, but no reason your criminal record should be used to prevent hiring of a restaurant cook or the like.

  10. #210
    Rusty Larue

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junebug View Post
    I thought it was immoral to lock people up?

    Sounds to me like this is just a line-drawing debate.
    Yes on both counts.

  11. #211
    Btw, that tweet is part of a 4-tweet thread, you all should read them in totality. On mobile so it was hard enough to get the first one, so I didnít post them all

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by WFU71 View Post
    That's bullshit for "I have no fucking clue" or "You're really going to hate the plan".
    No it's not. And as I said, I don't mind talking about plans and alternatives. We should absolutely discuss them and plan for alternatives. I will when I have more time. My point is still that the oppressed do not have to define the terms of their freedom before demanding freedom.

  13. #213
    My plan is that we do away with prisons and repurpose Mississippi as our new penal colony, in the community will be all former prisoners from around the country and any persons and their families that support the abolishment of prisons, the Rchill and Ms of the world, problem solved with a concrete solution.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Gossett Jr View Post
    ADT I agree with pretty much all your reforms because you are talking as a reformist not a destroyer idealist. The inability to get employment is certainly a massive reason for the repeat offender system we have now. If you committed a crime that directly deals with the employment type you seek then itís understandable that this should be reported, I.e financial crimes and banking, child crimes and children, but no reason your criminal record should be used to prevent hiring of a restaurant cook or the like.
    Abolitionist are calling into question the ability of our PIC to reform to meet these goals, given that past reforms have gotten us to this point. You can't just say "we need to hire people out of jail" without wrestling with the facts that the entire machine of the PIC prevents people from those jobs and profits off their labor.

    If I'm being honest, I don't think ADT has proposed any reforms that are capable of even making a tiny dent in our problem of mass incarceration.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Junebug View Post
    Youíre not this dumb.
    says the libertarian defending mass incarceration.

  16. #216
    I disagree with you
    ImTheCaptain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHBDemon View Post
    No it's not. And as I said, I don't mind talking about plans and alternatives. We should absolutely discuss them and plan for alternatives. I will when I have more time. My point is still that the oppressed do not have to define the terms of their freedom before demanding freedom.
    yes, but how will we make snarky comments without a plan to snark against, friend?

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Junebug View Post
    Yeah, sure. They can demand until they are blue in the face. But in order to get their demands they have to define how their freedom looks.
    said the slaveowner.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by MHBDemon View Post
    Abolitionist are calling into question the ability of our PIC to reform to meet these goals, given that past reforms have gotten us to this point. You can't just say "we need to hire people out of jail" without wrestling with the facts that the entire machine of the PIC prevents people from those jobs and profits off their labor.

    If I'm being honest, I don't think ADT has proposed any reforms that are capable of even making a tiny dent in our problem of mass incarceration.
    you have to walk before you crawl. it's like MDMH suggesting McCaskill got destroyed by a MAGA candidate because a progressive didn't run for senate in MO. You have to erode away rather than just going all in.

  19. #219
    I disagree with you
    ImTheCaptain's Avatar
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    "i don't like this and it needs to be fixed!"

    "ok, you might be right. what did you have in mind?"

    "it's not incumbent on me to offer an alternative"

    how life gets done !

  20. #220
    So my Mississippi penal colony means the abolishment of all prisons but you wonít move there, seems telling.

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