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Thread: Police and Prison Abolition Thread

  1. #281

  2. #282

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by JuiceCrewAllStar View Post
    I disagree with her. It's not contradictory at all, to me. Society requires a criminal justice system, and Breonna Taylor deserves justice.
    Draxx them sklounst

  4. #284
    Does police abolition always go hand in hand with prison abolition, I don't think that it necessarily does. I'm pretty sure you would find among a strong majority of people that are for abolishing the police/defunding the police they are open to prison reform but not abolishing prisons.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by myDeaconmyhand View Post
    I disagree with her. It's not contradictory at all, to me. Society requires a criminal justice system, and Breonna Taylor deserves justice.
    then I'd say you aren't a full abolitionist in the sense Eve Ewing is talking about

    there is a tension between those calling for both full abolition and for justice for Breonna via arrest and prosecution

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by myDeaconmyhand View Post
    I disagree with her. It's not contradictory at all, to me. Society requires a criminal justice system, and Breonna Taylor deserves justice.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by JuiceCrewAllStar View Post
    then I'd say you aren't a full abolitionist in the sense Eve Ewing is talking about

    there is a tension between those calling for both full abolition and for justice for Breonna via arrest and prosecution
    Possibly - and I think it definitely is if people are calling for their incarceration or to "lock them up." I think there is room for the justice system in both a non-police, non-prison state. There will still be a need for discernment of guilt and proper restitution/restoration.

    But to Eve Ewing's point, I doubt many with both exclamations on their timeline are self-reflecting on the nuance and potential contradiction. And the awkward conversation is one that needs to be had in imagining what abolition actually looks like - beyond a catch phrase.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Gossett Jr View Post
    Does police abolition always go hand in hand with prison abolition, I don't think that it necessarily does. I'm pretty sure you would find among a strong majority of people that are for abolishing the police/defunding the police they are open to prison reform but not abolishing prisons.
    Generally yes. Abolitionists usually refer to abolishing the prison industrial complex, of which policing is a part.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Gossett Jr View Post
    Does police abolition always go hand in hand with prison abolition, I don't think that it necessarily does. I'm pretty sure you would find among a strong majority of people that are for abolishing the police/defunding the police they are open to prison reform but not abolishing prisons.
    I would say yes when talking total abolition. For the radically defund (not reform) group, I expect there is a wider continuum of belief re: prison abolition.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by IamThunderbolt View Post
    Possibly - and I think it definitely is if people are calling for their incarceration or to "lock them up." I think there is room for the justice system in both a non-police, non-prison state. There will still be a need for discernment of guilt and proper restitution/restoration.

    But to Eve Ewing's point, I doubt many with both exclamations on their timeline are self-reflecting on the nuance and potential contradiction. And the awkward conversation is one that needs to be had in imagining what abolition actually looks like - beyond a catch phrase.
    I'm thinking of the image below that has circulated a good bit among people that are also calling for abolition. It is true, though, that I'm not cross referencing who is exactly calling for what among my social media follows to know how widespread the inconsistency is. I'm speaking personally that it is an internal tension, between wanting to abolish the carceral state and also wanting to see "justice" in this sense. It speaks to my own lack of imagination on what justice should and could be.


  11. #291
    I can definitely say that I dont subscribe to the total abolishment of the criminal justice concept - I think that idea is far too utopian and fantastical. Even our current broken system is capable of justice occasionally.
    Draxx them sklounst

  12. #292
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    One reason Iím pessimistic about true prison reform is that even people who want to change the criminal justice system have their ugly fantasy of killer cops in prison getting raped and fearing for their lives.

  13. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by myDeaconmyhand View Post
    I can definitely say that I dont subscribe to the total abolishment of the criminal justice concept - I think that idea is far too utopian and fantastical. Even our current broken system is capable of justice occasionally.
    Glad, you are coming around to reality. A very positive aspect of this is that in most communities social/mental health workers aren't paid as much as cops. So, there will be money for other programs. Each person you keep out of the criminal justice mess saves tons of money as well. Money that can be used in communities to help a myriad of problems.

    For the RWers, with fewer people with criminal records, they can make and spend more money and create jobs.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by RJKarl View Post
    Glad, you are coming around to reality.
    RJ, based on the 1000 shit posts you've made responding to me, you have no clue who I am or what I believe in, so I really don't need your encouragement. You're better off just considering me Karl Marx and ignoring me. BYE.
    Draxx them sklounst

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    One reason Iím pessimistic about true prison reform is that even people who want to change the criminal justice system have their ugly fantasy of killer cops in prison getting raped and fearing for their lives.
    Individuating the concepts of punishment and justice is extremely difficult, even in theory.
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  16. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by myDeaconmyhand View Post
    RJ, based on the 1000 shit posts you've made responding to me, you have no clue who I am or what I believe in, so I really don't need your encouragement. You're better off just considering me Karl Marx and ignoring me. BYE.
    If I'm wrong about that, I'm sorry. I said nothing bad about you in that post. But you felt the need to go nuclear. That's sad.

  17. #297
    Your post was condescending, dismissing his past comments as not being in reality. This, on a subject in which he has proven to have informed and thoughtful opinions.

    Telling somebody that their well thought out opinions are not reality is going to be taken as saying something bad about them.
    Letís get this done!

  18. #298
    Draxx them sklounst

  19. #299
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    I'm surprised there haven't been emergency lawsuits filed on behalf of inmates nationwide. There should be class action suits in many states.

    This is despicable.

  20. #300
    Ok, fuck it i'm a prison abolitionist now
    Draxx them sklounst

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