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Thread: Police and Prison Abolition Thread

  1. #321
    It’s not inaccurate. You just disagree with it.

  2. #322
    I agree that "Defund" isn't the best message if you don't need abolish, but I don't think it's necessary or wise for Obama and establishment Dems to fight people on this. "Defund the police" is a grassroots movement that has relatively few candidates, save for some mayoral races. Establishment dems just come off as picking a fight with their own base, over something that is a messaging failure on the establishment's fault.

  3. #323
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    Democratic Party politicians need to come up with their own platform on policing and campaign on it rather than taking potshots at a slogan. That's the real issue not the activists who are doing the "Defund" and "Abolish" work. If there was a healthy policy discussion among Democrats centered around addressing key problems with common solutions, then it would be easy to brand the Republican penchant for violent oppression and mass incarceration as extreme.
    Last edited by PhDeac; 12-02-2020 at 02:51 PM.

  4. #324
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    Don't disagree, and I imagine that's something Obama is supportive of as well. Problem is, whatever that might be, it will be mocked/ridiculed by the portion of the defund the police movement that actually wants to defund/abolish the police.

  5. #325
    The Pumpfaker Paul Hogan's Avatar
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    Great points Ayanna. Now stop saying Defund !

  6. #326
    When you say abolish slavery you really turn off people that benefit from slavery. What you really should say is make slavery better.

  7. #327
    The Pumpfaker Paul Hogan's Avatar
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    That's a good one.

  8. #328
    If you really cared about something with such deep passion wouldn’t you be open to amending a slogan to get more movement instead of being a stubborn combative asshole that just wants to be right. That’s in the context of people that really want to move money around towards other services, not people that straight up want to abolish police completely, they can keep defund the police.

  9. #329
    The Pumpfaker Paul Hogan's Avatar
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    The thing is, he actually wants to defund and abolish the police.

  10. #330

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by MHBDemon View Post
    A 10% decrease is defunding the police as well. So yeah, it kind of is a slogan since it doesn't give any specific details and means different things for different people who use the slogan.

    That said politicians continue to ignore the situation and complain about those pushing for change rather than proposing their own solutions or leading on the issue. So their complaining rings pretty hollow. Politicians can call their plan whatever they want - unfortunately they don't have any plan.

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Democratic Party politicians need to come up with their own platform on policing and campaign on it rather than taking potshots at a slogan. That's the real issue not the activists who are doing the "Defund" and "Abolish" work. If there was a healthy policy discussion among Democrats centered around addressing key problems with common solutions, then it would be easy to brand the Republican penchant for violent oppression and mass incarceration as extreme.
    What do you think are some common solutions that could be centered? I would like to see full decriminalization of drugs as part of that.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by MHBDemon View Post

    I think defund/abolish police is a wrongheaded slogan and demand.
    I love mankind...it’s people I can’t stand!!

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by ConnorEl View Post
    I think defund/abolish police is a wrongheaded slogan and demand.
    Cool. Then just say you disagree with it.

  15. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHBDemon View Post
    What do you think are some common solutions that could be centered? I would like to see full decriminalization of drugs as part of that.
    Every side has a slogan like "defund the police" or "law and order" and they can tell you what they don't like about the system. But politicians don't have a specific plan or message. This plays right into the hands of right-wingers. They don't need a plan because they're fine with the status quo.

    Any solution has to come to grips with three huge realities. First, policing has a massive PR advantage in the news, in scripted drama, in reality shows, etc. Second, policing is seen as the only solution to "crime" which people generally agree is a problem. Any alternatives are beyond what people currently see as achievable. Third, policing is a local and hyperlocal issue that can't be solved with an executive order or a few bills. All of those realities make it extremely difficult to fight policing. Any resistance to the status quo has a ton of work to do. The status quo doesn't have to do anything. That's one reason why all or nothing solutions are very difficult.

    So that said, I think there are more areas of agreement with respect to criminal justice as a whole than there are for policing specifically. I think there is a growing consensus on the left about decriminalization of marijuana. If more people can explain what decriminalization means in practice, I think you could get more people behind treating drug use as a health and wellness issue instead of a criminal justice issue. That's the demand side. The supply side is more of a challenge.

    I think you can also develop a broad consensus on the left and center-left about getting rid of private prisons, improving the treatment of the incarcerated, use and abuse of prison labor, and rights restoration. As I've said before, Democrats can unite around protecting basic human rights and human dignity across a variety of issues (pro-choice, LGBTQ+ rights, educational equity, etc).

    Once we recognize policing is so local, the national message can be to vote in Democrats and pressure them to work with the community to determine how best to allocate resources.
    Last edited by PhDeac; 12-02-2020 at 09:30 PM.

  16. #336
    What does voting in Democrats do? Minneapolis, where Floyd was murdered, hasn't had a Republican on the city council since '98.

    They also did actually defund the police and now crime is up and they are having to beg sherrifs from neighboring counties to lend them men, because nobody wants to be a cop in Minneapolis anymore. Agree its not a slogan. It's just a dumb plan.
    Last edited by pinochadeac; 12-03-2020 at 01:43 AM.

  17. #337
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    Isn't crime going up everywhere because people are going out more due to COVID fatigue?

    When did Minneapolis defund the police? Didn't they just say they could consider it? Did they pass a new budget?

  18. #338

  19. #339
    The messaging should be “demilitarize the police.”

    Much harder for anyone to really argue with this statement.

  20. #340

    Police and Prison Abolition Thread

    Would be much easier to take all this “defund” rhetoric criticism seriously if all of the major “reform” proposals didn’t involve outright refusal to cut police budgets, or most egregiously, giving police departments *MORE* money. So yeah, until any of these good faith pragmatic minds actually decide to address the problem of too much policing, fuck all the way off with the constructive feedback.
    Last edited by myDeaconmyhand; 12-02-2020 at 11:58 PM.
    Draxx them sklounst

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