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Police and Prison Abolition Thread

obviously moronic fringe bullshit.

Did I mention how concerned I was about potentially losing your political support? Next time you start doing the moderate political calculus, remember how fucking disrespectful and condescending you are towards activist demands. You’ve staked your opposition to the movement, and from now on you should just own up to it.
 
There's nothing to know about this "debate" because it isn't a debate. It's threes of people telling the boards why anarchy is our best solution as a society.

“The boards”, there are like 7 of you here.
 
There's nothing to know about this "debate" because it isn't a debate. It's threes of people telling the boards why anarchy is our best solution as a society.

For something that is so fringe, it sure has plenty of people upset.
 
You want to get rid of police brutality with some radical agenda? How about any cop who murders an unarmed civ, who was posing no threat of harm, get's publicly humiliated and murdered in front of their entire family. That way you kill the bad cop and it makes other bad cops think twice before killing an unarmed civ. That's the radical equivalent of abolishing the police.

literally what.
 
feels like creamy's assumption that those interested in police abolition just want "some radical agenda" is a revealing reason why "abolish the police" is not intelligible to centrists et al.
 
Geez, Creamy. You could be a good dude with different opinions or a shit stirring troll in a conversation you have little real interest in. Recently you’ve been doing the former more than the latter. Try going back to that. Almost everybody in this thread is still learning about the abolition movement.

This is a quality discussion aside from Hogan and Creamy trolling. I liked the link tilt posted. It does a good job of covering the issues. Like it or not, there will never be support for a plan in which people don’t know who to call when they feel threatened.

A few notes about sloganeering. Republicans (and some Democrats) have been defunding public education for decades and shifting education dollars, land, buildings, and other resources to churches, corporations, and other private sector entities. But they don’t call it “defunding public education” right? It’s “voucher programs” and “charter schools” and “choice.” It's about "education reform." Republicans have been stripping away public education funding for decades under the guise of "reform."

So why not use that approach and focus on properly funding health and human services? Leave out that it will come from reallocating massive police budgets. Center the conversation around what people want not what people have and are afraid to lose.

Democrats and the left need to come up with a national message for local alternatives. People like the term "community policing." Just take that and go hard into the idea that communities should decide how they want to be policed which includes allocation of police budgets. Then say that anything that isn't your definition of "community policing" is a "police state" and outside occupation (which it basically is).
 
feels like creamy's assumption that those interested in police abolition just want "some radical agenda" is a revealing reason why "abolish the police" is not intelligible to centrists et al.

Yeah, and suddenly the same people who believe in 5 million different legitimate methods for universal healthcare lost all their imagination for alternatives. Interesting.
 
Like it or not, there will never be support for a plan in which people don’t know who to call when they feel threatened.

.

You keep saying this as if abolitionists don’t have an answer to this question. People already practice alternatives.
 
Did I mention how concerned I was about potentially losing your political support? Next time you start doing the moderate political calculus, remember how fucking disrespectful and condescending you are towards activist demands. You’ve staked your opposition to the movement, and from now on you should just own up to it.

No problem.
 
Seems to me that all the people claiming that “Republicans” are controlling the narrative, seem to also have a pretty firm grasp on the narrative themselves. I’m just saying, maybe the call is coming from inside the house.
 
Geez, Creamy. You could be a good dude with different opinions or a shit stirring troll in a conversation you have little real interest in. Recently you’ve been doing the former more than the latter. Try going back to that. Almost everybody in this thread is still learning about the abolition movement.

This is a quality discussion aside from Hogan and Creamy trolling. I liked the link tilt posted. It does a good job of covering the issues. Like it or not, there will never be support for a plan in which people don’t know who to call when they feel threatened.

A few notes about sloganeering. Republicans (and some Democrats) have been defunding public education for decades and shifting education dollars, land, buildings, and other resources to churches, corporations, and other private sector entities. But they don’t call it “defunding public education” right? It’s “voucher programs” and “charter schools” and “choice.” It's about "education reform." Republicans have been stripping away public education funding for decades under the guise of "reform."

So why not use that approach and focus on properly funding health and human services? Leave out that it will come from reallocating massive police budgets. Center the conversation around what people want not what people have and are afraid to lose.

Democrats and the left need to come up with a national message for local alternatives. People like the term "community policing." Just take that and go hard into the idea that communities should decide how they want to be policed which includes allocation of police budgets. Then say that anything that isn't your definition of "community policing" is a "police state" and outside occupation (which it basically is).

PH, I feel you dude...Not tryna rustle too many jimmies...I opened this thread because I'm surprised that there are real people that think it's a good idea to abolish the police. In my opinion, this is an emotional viewpoint and not a logical one. My posts aren't going to do anything to help or hurt the movement. This is also my OG boards witching hour.
 
You keep saying this as if abolitionists don’t have an answer to this question. People already practice alternatives.

I say this as if board abolitionists aren’t bringing those answers into the discussion instead of shaming people who don’t know the answers.

If you’re not sharing the alternatives, “defund the police” seems as hollow as “repeal Obamacare.”
 
PH, I feel you dude...Not tryna rustle too many jimmies...I opened this thread because I'm surprised that there are real people that think it's a good idea to abolish the police. In my opinion, this is an emotional viewpoint and not a logical one. My posts aren't going to do anything to help or hurt the movement. This is also my OG boards witching hour.

I think you understand that for many people, police are a taxpayer funded gang that only exists to protect property and the interests of well to do white people. So you can understand why their emotional viewpoint is for just getting rid of that gang all together. I think you also understand that you emotional viewpoint gets a priority in this country because you’re a well to do white man. So advancing your opinions and silencing others comes off as reinforcement of a racial hierarchy you benefit from.
 
I think you understand that for many people, police are a taxpayer funded gang that only exists to protect property and the interests of well to do white people. So you can understand why their emotional viewpoint is for just getting rid of that gang all together. I think you also understand that you emotional viewpoint gets a priority in this country because you’re a well to do white man. So advancing your opinions and silencing others comes off as reinforcement of a racial hierarchy you benefit from.

EASY....Who the fuck are you calling well to do?
 
I taught in the DC Public Schools for a year.

My school was Ballou HS in the heart of Anacostia; it was the hood. The class was called "Street Law" and it taught basic legal principles like what constitutes an enforceable agreement and how warranties work when you buy a car or a product. 100% of the students in my class were black (as an aside, a colleague also taught a class at Ballou, and she had one white kid in her class as Bolling Air Force Base was in Ballou's jurisdiction, and the white kid was in a family that was stationed at Bolling; the kid's name was Bob White; not hard to remember that name; felt like it was a Chappelle skit).

Criminal law was an part of the Street Law curriculum, and as part of that portion of the class, we attended a criminal trial in DC Superior Court. Our trial was a murder trial. The defendant was a 19 year-old from Anacostia that many of my students knew. He was feared, and he made their neighborhood unsafe. My kids were far more law and order proponents than the suburban white kids that I had grown up with, and it was not close; they or their families had been frequent victims of crime. They wanted a greater police presence, strict sentences for those that commit crimes and they wanted people that made their neighborhoods unsafe locked up. I am against the death penalty, and the majority of my kids not only wanted the defendant in the murder case locked up, they wanted him executed. If anything in that class, I was the "lib" advocating for relaxed sentencing and alternatives to prison, and my students were the law and order conservatives who cared far more for victims rights than reforming our police and prison system.

Admittedly, this experience preceded the current BLM movement and lots have feelings have changed, but those that try to make the "defunding the police" and all related criminal justice reform issues out to be an issue that the African-American community universally supports is not accurate based upon my experience.
 
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People like the term "community policing." Just take that and go hard into the idea that communities should decide how they want to be policed which includes allocation of police budgets. Then say that anything that isn't your definition of "community policing" is a "police state" and outside occupation (which it basically is).

How do MDMH and MHB feel about "community policing"?
 
In all seriousness, the M&M bro's being the voice for the oppressed black community is a tired schtick. I'm not going to do the "black friend" thing...But I would task anyone who is reading this to ask all of their black friends and the friends of their black friends, how they feel about abolishing the police. PH, I know you don't want to abolish the police. Just because I jumped in this convo as a white guy doesn't mean you need to jump in with racial hierarchy talk and argue with me. I would imagine our views on this align more so than others who are posting here.

I fucking hate cops. Most all of them I know are douchey, power hungry bullies who didn't get laid in HS or college and wanted to become a cop to let out their pent up anger. We still need those angry idiots, though.
 
I taught in the DC Public Schools for a year.

My school was Ballou HS in the heart of Anacostia; it was the hood. The class was called "Street Law" and it taught basic legal principles like what constitutes an enforceable agreement and how warranties work when you buy a car or a product. 100% of the students in my class were black (as an aside, a colleague also taught a class at Ballou, and she had one white kid in her class as Bolling Air Force Base was in Ballou's jurisdiction, and the white kid was in a family that was stationed at Bolling; the kid's name was Bob White; not hard to remember that name; felt like it was a Chappelle skit).

Criminal law was an part of the Street Law curriculum, and as part of that portion of the class, we attended a criminal trial in DC Superior Court. Our trial was a murder trial. The defendant was a 19 year-old from Anacostia that many of my students knew. He was feared, and he made their neighborhood unsafe. My kids were far more law and order proponents than the suburban white kids that I had grown up with, and it was not close; they or their families had been frequent victims of crime. They wanted a greater police presence, strict sentences for those that commit crimes and they wanted people that made their neighborhoods unsafe locked up. I am against the death penalty, and the majority of my kids not only wanted the defendant in the murder case locked up, they wanted him executed. If anything in that class, I was the "lib" advocating for relaxed sentencing and alternatives to prison, and my students were the law and order conservatives who cared far more for victims rights than reforming our police and prison system.

Admittedly, this experience preceded the current BLM movement and lots have feelings have changed, but those that try to make the "defunding the police" and all related criminal justice reform issues out to be an issue that the African-American community universally supports is not accurate based upon my experience.

This.
 
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