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Police and Prison Abolition Thread

myDeaconmyhand said:
If only we could imagine a less confusing, alternative slogan that might win us such voters as this.
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This wasn't funny the first time you used it a few pages back, and jokes are like cheap wine.

But I agree the problem with the Democratic Party isn't messaging. It's the message.
 
This is America - If you're in an officer involves shooting that involves a fatality, you lose your pension. Capitalism at it's finest. You can shoot to save your own life, but you gotta really need to.

Earlier in this thread already showed how just linking the person giving the punishment with the person who has to pay for the punishment will solve the prison problem.
 
TenaciousKory said:
I would think compressing all the elements that constitute our received understanding of race (aesthetic, cultural, political, historical, etc.) into the sentence "whiteness is nothing more than the color of one's flesh." is the reductive take here.

I don't understand how criticism of those elements lays the groundwork for racism, either.
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No, looking at a person and saying "They have ___ color skin, therefore I can say ___ else about them" is reductionist, and it lays the groundwork for racism because you are viewing individuals as typecasts based on nothing more than the color of their skin. That is the definition of pre-judgment.
 
stugotz said:
This is America - If you're in an officer involves shooting that involves a fatality, you lose your pension. Capitalism at it's finest. You can shoot to save your own life, but you gotta really need to.
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That's a terrible idea.
 
HuskyDeac said:
Good reply. Do you think those mental health responders would be part of what's called the police or an entirely different organization to separate the ideas of policeing and mental health response entirely?
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They would need to be integrated into the emergency response system in some way. Police are frequently the first on scene. So it may make sense to have them as a specialized police unit. Probably they would be more likely to be called if they were part of the police.

Haven't done a deep dive on these yet. Just some broad concepts.
 
WakeBored said:
This wasn't funny the first time you used it
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Perhaps you’re just not very adept at discerning sarcasm from humor. Your moronic white guy “all lives matter” colorblind repartee is perfectly demonstrative of the type of swing voter that Democrats aim their entire message toward, and they’re scared shitless of activists turning you off.
 
Why don't we just bring back mental asylums for the homeless crazies? Dude seriously had me worried yesterday following me for like 200 yards, even after I jaywalked across the street. Is a schizophrenic really going to improve?
 
WakeBored said:
No, looking at a person and saying "They have ___ color skin, therefore I can say ___ else about them" is reductionist, and it lays the groundwork for racism because you are viewing individuals as typecasts based on nothing more than the color of their skin. That is the definition of pre-judgment.
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When did I do that?
 
CreamyGoodness said:
In all seriousness, the M&M bro's being the voice for the oppressed black community is a tired schtick. I'm not going to do the "black friend" thing...But I would task anyone who is reading this to ask all of their black friends and the friends of their black friends, how they feel about abolishing the police. PH, I know you don't want to abolish the police. Just because I jumped in this convo as a white guy doesn't mean you need to jump in with racial hierarchy talk and argue with me. I would imagine our views on this align more so than others who are posting here.

I fucking hate cops. Most all of them I know are douchey, power hungry bullies who didn't get laid in HS or college and wanted to become a cop to let out their pent up anger. We still need those angry idiots, though.
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You know cops that went to college?
 
Are you confusing me with another poster?
 
HuskyDeac said:
Do those of you strongly opposed to the idea of defunding (on some level) or abolishing the police have their own ideas of what might help fix the increasing militarization and inequalities in US policing? Or do you think it is not an issue in need of solution?
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I’m in favor of reform. Seems to me there are abundant opportunities for improving how we do law enforcement.

I don’t think abolishing police or prisons is ever going to happen.

Not my area of studied expertise. There was this thing Obama put together...President's Task Force on 21st Century Policing where folks with some interest and expertise came up with recommendations, etc.

Seems a possible starting point...?
 
I think it’s honestly interesting that most everyone here is choosing to discuss and dismiss abolition vs discuss defunding. I don’t speak for abolish proponents like mhb, but I don’t think those two goals should be conflated.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I think it’s honestly interesting that most everyone here is choosing to discuss and dismiss abolition vs discuss defunding. I don’t speak for abolish proponents like mhb, but I don’t think those two goals should be conflated.
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You and mhb are the only people here that want to abolish, no? That would lend more discussion towards defunding.
 
The current iteration of this debate was regarding Obama’s comments on the “Defund” slogan, and the political ramifications of that slogan. I’m not going to entertain the posters here who are dishonestly and moronically portraying the defund movement as some invitation to lawless anarchy.

The only people who are honestly confused about the meaning of “Defund” are those unaware how massive and bloated law enforcement budgets are.
 
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myDeaconmyhand said:
I think it’s honestly interesting that most everyone here is choosing to discuss and dismiss abolition vs discuss defunding. I don’t speak for abolish proponents like mhb, but I don’t think those two goals should be conflated.
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Part of the reason is that some of the proponents of abolition use "defund" to mean reduce police budgets to zero.

Others using the "defund..." language mean diverting a significant sum from police budgets to social services, mental health, guaranteed income programs etc. (example: New York City mayor proposed a $1 billion cut in th $6 billion police department budget. The money would be put into social services.)

Historically, "defunding" a program has been a legislative tool for abolishing a program or activity that had fallen out of favor. Defunding meant setting the budget line item to zero dollars. So that is part of the confusion.

Policing in the U.S. is a city, county and state function. Most big cities are, and have been, controlled by mayors and city councils that are members of the Democratic party. It is the police departments in those large cities that have been the targets of the defund and abolish and reduce funding efforts.
 
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